Debunking Myths about Ethanol / Alcohol

automan1223

Active Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
3,760
Location
Oriental, North Carolina
Aircraft
2p Tandem Air Command "Big Red"
Total Flight Time
250
This thread is in response to my challenge to several users that say ethanol is a dead end. They parrot oil propaganda as if it is the final word on the subject. I purchased a rather large volume of 600 pages by author David Blume. "Alcohol can be a gas". It can be hard to get since it is very sought after book. It sells for about 45 to 50 dollars.

Here is the chapter on Myths about alcohol. Enjoy it.

Do not send me any money, instead if it rings your b.s meter then leave it and know you tripped over some truth, picked yourself up and moved on back to your comfort zone. If the book peaks your interest I suggest you purchase it and learn there is a big world out there and that you could, yes you COULD make a difference in, but first you would to let go of your assumptions and THINK !

Here are the first 8 pages, start with page 1 & 2 in pdf format. I was able to get better compression saving them as jpg's. Right click the image and save to a folder to be viewed in an image viewer, on screen they are not easy to read.

I will scan in the rest of the chapter over the weekend.

Jonathan
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0001.pdf
    146.2 KB · Views: 0
  • IMG_0002.pdf
    147.7 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
more pages of debunking myths...

more pages of debunking myths...

Here you go !

A suggestion about the book. While many of the talking points regarding the myths are not too deep in chapter 2 Mr Blume does go into each one with additional material in other chapters. Basically what you have to understand is that nothing is wasted. Ethanol / alcohol production is a closed loop system based on sound principles. While some folks here may try to say its all sugarcane in Brazil, Mr Blume does make it clear in the rest of the information he provides that it can be done HERE, in the USA. However first and this is a first step. You must educate yourself, understand there are many solutions for different parts of the country.

Above all, you could feed the world, while providing the energy needs of all nations.

In chapter 13 he devotes the whole chapter to converting your engine and other technical issues associated with its use.

J
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0001.jpg
    IMG_0001.jpg
    137.3 KB · Views: 0
  • IMG_0006.jpg
    IMG_0006.jpg
    103.8 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
You can eat ethanol

You can eat ethanol

Here you go !

A suggestion about the book. While many of the talking points regarding the myths are not too deep in chapter 2 Mr Blume does go into each one with additional material in other chapters. Basically what you have to understand is that nothing is wasted. Ethanol / alcohol production is a closed loop system based on sound principles. While some folks here may try to say its all sugarcane in Brazil, Mr Blume does make it clear in the rest of the information he provides that it can be done HERE, in the USA. However first and this is a first step. You must educate yourself, understand there are many solutions for different parts of the country.

Above all, you could feed the world, while providing the energy needs of all nations.

In chapter 13 he devotes the whole chapter to converting your engine and other technical issues associated with its use.

J



Mr Blume has been discredited many times over, he needs a hair cut

Ask Mr. Blume if he would like to debate the issue. Claims must be referenced. "It will be in my book" is not a valid reference. Red herrings, such as "gasoline is essentially refinery waste" are not valid arguments.

I mean, half of what he wrote above is irrelevant, and a good bit is plainly false. For example "Using corn as the primary source of ethanol as a fuel is intellectually dishonest since corn is a minority crop in world alcohol production". What? We are talking about fuel in the U.S.

I would bet of facts, you don’t have any facts to support your claims, in fact, you are parroting none other than Blume it self..! GROW UP
 
I am sitting on the fence as far as shutting down and deleting each and every one of these Ethanol threads. If you guys want to discuss how the fuel applies to our engines, fine....

And Fritz, if you have nothing to say here on this forum that applies to sport rotorcraft, then why post here?
 
Can't you post informative and, perhaps, educational rebuttals to another's posts without the childish and inflamatory comments such as "GROW UP"?
 
Jon you should start your own ethanol production plant up there on the outer banks, you could make ethanol from seaweed.


Again, I NEVER said alcohol of any sort could not be a fuel...
Mixed with gas and shoved down our throats is a bad idea. Geeze!

Go ahead and shut it down Ron!
So what now, no political discussions, no fuel disscussions, no discussions about fast food,
Hey! Animal posted some car stuff, smack his p-- p--!

I have better things to do today than argue on the internet.......y'all have fun!
 
Last edited:
Ron,

Let's leave the ethanol threads in place for now.
But I am moving it to the Off Topic section.
 
Permission

Permission

I am going to delete the pages for now until I get permission from the author to post it here.

As I thought this material is too progressive for many readers.

I do not want to debate the issue, if 16 pages was not enough to turn the light bulb on then no amount of information will change your mind.

I am so tired of Ron playing hall monitor.

The earth is flat,
There is no such thing as germs
Earth is the center of the universe.

:noidea:
 
I have to chime in. I agree that direct attacks are completely the bane of this forum..... a lively discussion about what fuels are good or not good is integral & relevant.... cant the offending nanny nanny nanny schoolyard posters just suffer being yanked or have theor posting abilities limited or something? Can we set up a poll on offending posts that lasts 48 hours to vote on their demise (or something). Kind of a public stocks.

I have had my issues with Automan over some past postings but I certainly defend and even thank him for trying to illuminate a clouded issue. Whether you buy the authors contention or not is called free will and speaks to those freedoms everyone is quick to salute.

Doesnt Indiana grow lots of corn?
 
Yeah, lets deface the Forum and be all about political correctness, people coming from outside in droves will stick longer!
Who needs debate anyhow? We all have very well formed opinions about just everything so, why botter?
Blame it on Jonathan or thon . . .he is the one that uses colorfull epitets and not the guys that have mutant heads that will fit in any hat thrown up.
So now we have a new rule? (like that show on BO)
If you want to interact in this Forum, you must have posts on gyros. Then you can go to the sand box and play with the kiddies.
Go have some grain alchool and get your head light!
Heron
 
Weighing in

Weighing in

I have not posted recently. Been busy.

This off-topic thread is interesting.

Seems Blume is flaming a little. Conscientious and loving gardening himself, he knows it can be done. But most people do not share his love. Most people do not want to be involved in agriculture.

Today, we escape the ultimate reality of our existence because we have technologies and petroleum products to isolate us from the stark realities of the agrarian life. We live in a meritocracy where those stable enough, and educated enough tell the man with the shovel where to dig. Our daughters travel freely, safely and dependably within our constructs.

I got a kick out of one of the windowed quotes in chapter two, Patrick Viveret's altruistic futurizing. He is correct, but fails to realize that what we do have in the World is the effort to avoid those shortcomings. If we did not pursue our current course we would all live without; not just the third world. The third world does not suffer because of those with more purpose than themselves; they suffer because they know to suffer, because they see that it is possible not to suffer shortage, but do not know how to escape it. They suffer because we, ourselves, have a conscience to see they have less. Their shortcomings are apparent in our abundance only. Blessings are relative. While Blume quotes the quoter to argue for the balance of World resources that some may not go without, the whole premise of his book is that there is no shortage. Blume needs to go to Africa and teach them to garden effectively and produce ethanol, avoiding western culture, thus bypassing the horrors of the Western World. But they've got to do it for themselves.

Altruism is a matter of the individual heart. If you want to help someone else, then do so. But it is theft to coerce others to do the same by law. Join a group, a church, a charity to help others in need, but do not make a church of the State.

There is no universal law of health care or survival in nature. You want alcohol? Produce alcohol. You want electric cars? Produce electric cars? You want organic foods? Produce organic foods. If you can do it better, then do it better; just as you do with sport aviation. Corporations, whether enterprise or civic, have no soul; but you do. It is each his own responsibility to live long and prosper without taking from or harming others.

Yet, a blessing, because of Blume's book I am slightly motivated to get off my fat ass and use my squatted two acres for more agrarian purposes. One day, we may all be horribly called to return to the earth.

Tinstaafl! There is no such thing as a free lunch.

In America, rather than consider our intercourse as one would the breeding of their goats, sheep, chickens or cattle for prosperity, we teach each other from cradle to grave to copulate like bunnies because it feels good, and then wonder what's wrong with our World.

Terry
 
Last edited:
I like lively debates...good for the brain cells.
When I get tired of it...I "turn the page" so to speak...no one forces any to participate, so it's good to leave these threads in Off Topic. As long as a level of civility is maintained, the posts remain. Rules are clear...no name calling, inflaming others with Ad Hominem attacks (against One's Religion for example)..and so forth.

Other forums I belong to have a "Password" needed to gain entry and the threads don't appear in the line up of "New Posts" in the Public part of the Forum...outta' sight outta' mind.
The thinking is: some are so lazy as to even Copy & Paste the password that many won't even bother to view the contents.
It DOES seem to keep the peace.
 
Sorry your so tired of me monitoring the halls Jonathan. Maybe you can bug GyroMike and Todd to " fire " me.....

Meanwhile, I am fine with debate and the issue itself is a good topic for discussion. The problem is the issue is more or less along the lines of a political discussion, and like most of those discussions, this one has turned to name calling and so on.

I like the ugly nasty threads as much as the next guy, and you can discuss anything under the sun and I am fine with it. But as a moderator there are times and places I have to overlook what I like to do something for the betterment of the forum as a whole. GyroMike is higher up the food chain than me, and he has said let it stay, so stay it will.......
 
Cultures around the world. and you can pay me now...

Cultures around the world. and you can pay me now...

You have to understand where David has been and where he is trying to go. All his life he has been against the Goliath and he literally being "David".

Your analysis is intelligent but you are missing a component about the fact that throughout history there are ones that have the guns and they are the ones that have......anything they want. Africa is a problem which I will note in a moment.

What I have tried to do here is peak interest about the subject because I was one of the parroting idiots mind washed morons. Sound bites ruled my thoughts on the subject. Then I saw an interesting program about a local farmer who was growing organic. you have to remember that I live in a rural county where they do 2 or 3 crops a year. Corn, soybeans, winter wheat. Tobacco has all but gone from the county. So anyway this organic farmer was getting incredible yields from his green houses using nothing but earthworms. Incredible little creatures these worms are. Anyway the camera was following this man around his green houses and then they went out side and it was like a scene out of Jack and the bean stalk. Tomato plants 12' high. everything they looked at was over the top. then I remembered a neighbor I had back on Long Island. He had a cage of rabbits and they used the rabbit droppings to grow incredible foods in his backyard. Consider the backyard was no bigger than 30 by 60'. No chemicals, no GMO foods, No terminator seeds, No pesticides. No sterile soils ! And the food tasted out of this world !

So at the end of the interview with the man he mentioned how much this would feed and still have enough to make fuel to run everyones vehicles for a month ! This was just a "little greenhouse" and small farm. We are not talking dozens of acres.

So I started researching fuel from food and stumbled across knowledge publications. Blume is the authority on the subject and while you may not agree with some of his political takes on things, you would have to read the preface and the first chapter to understand the big picture. All in all I think he did a pretty good job tempering his personality with what he went through.

Ok so here is the 100 dollar answer to the folks that found my post so offensive, and those others that they had to move MY POST but left Scotts ethanol post intact in general. . I think my civil rights have been violated but at this moment I do not care. I know there is a rogue tree looking for a dirt bike rider at this very moment........

Ok so here is the answer.

Say corn does actually cost 4 or 5 bucks a bushel ? Ok we agree that farmers are now sticking it up everyones rear end and they are making killing on this corn bushel. Just go along with me for a moment, the issue is more complicated that that in reality. You the ethanol producer pay that outrageous sum and then burn fossil fuel, coal or your neighbors Mercedes to pay for the heat to cook off the mash to distill the alcohol. ? Well you can boo hoo hoo all you want, because doing that and only looking at that economic model is a losing game this is why myths get started.

Lets forget about the fact that the oil co's used numbers to push that myth from the Jack Daniels whiskey plant for a moment. Whiskey plants and like distillery do not care about reclaiming heat or being efficient they are making a killing on the booze. SO their studies are comparing apples to oranges. Not fair, at all.

Now the closed loop model in a nutshell. (how we should be doing it) For starters you are not using expensive seeds and having to use petrol based fertilizers, round up and taking a bath with 5 dollar a bushel corn, you are going back to organic farming. PERMACULTURE. Its a big word that requires study to understand but lets just for a moment say you are paying 5 bucks a bushel for the corn instead of a dollar, YOU COULD USE NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION SUGAR AT 19CENT A LB FROM MEXICOand really make a killing BUT FOR now you are retarded and want to use corn. [.because you want to feed the world high quality protein]. Now you make the mash, cook it off and now you have some excellent mash to feed your livestock, DDGS, (Dried Distillers grains). lets say cows. beef cows. not only will your cows grow at incredible rates, your time to fatten them up is much reduced. Old farmers that were cooking way back when got caught because their livestock were the best in show they were fat and strong and healthy. !!! Nothing grows livestock like DDGS.

Now you offset the cost of the 5 dollar corn by selling this supercharged animal feed for half for what you bought the corn for at 5 bucks. You have saved joe schmuck cattle farmer from 5 $ straight corn feed and now have provided him with an incredible feed !!!! .

Now you have fuel, and food for the price of fuel. Now I am not done yet stay with me boys and girls.......

You have all this livestock and all this poop, or manure to dispose of. you have all the droppings washed to a methane digester and you use the methane to fire the burners to cook your mash that makes the alcohol that provides the grains to the animals which in turn keep supplying you with endless poop which cook your mash.

DOES THIS ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS HOW WE WILL FEED THE WORLD AND HAVE FUEL FOR EVERYONE ???

Good by foreign oil ! Good by 1 trillion military budget, killing brown people overseas for energy resources. (well almost) Now I am not a tree hugger or algore lover ANY KID with a 3rd grade education can figure out bologna from fact in a short trip to the library....

It just is an elegant solution from a technical stand point.

Now all of you who thought I was full of it can paypal my 100 bucks per person to my email address. I think I have proved the POINT !

[email protected]

or postal mailing address upon request.

oh, and Africa. I have a customer whose son was a teacher, he majored in agriculture and went over to Africa to help feed and teach farmers over there how to grow and manage crops. He lived there less than a month where one day a rival tribe came with guns, burst into his class room and shot him in the head killing him. The reason was that he was working with a rival tribe, Now they all starve to death. and you can almost read the coverage in the alternative media how white farmers are being murdered over there because the "elected" leaders know they can do it better so now even more famine. True story.


Jonathan




I have not posted recently. Been busy.

This off-topic thread is interesting.

Seems Blume is flaming a little. Conscientious and loving gardening himself, he knows it can be done. But most people do not share his love. Most people do not want to be involved in agriculture.

Today, we escape the ultimate reality of our existence because we have technologies and petroleum products to isolate us from the stark realities of the agrarian life. We live in a meritocracy where those stable enough, and educated enough tell the man with the shovel where to dig. Our daughters travel freely, safely and dependably within our constructs.

I got a kick out of one of the windowed quotes in chapter two, Patrick Viveret's altruistic futurizing. He is correct, but fails to realize that what we do have in the World is the effort to avoid those shortcomings. If we did not pursue our current course we would all live without; not just the third world. The third world does not suffer because of those with more purpose than themselves; they suffer because they know to suffer, because they see that it is possible not to suffer shortage, but do not know how to escape it. They suffer because we, ourselves, have a conscience to see they have less. Their shortcomings are apparent in our abundance only. Blessings are relative. While Blume quotes the quoter to argue for the balance of World resources that some may not go without, the whole premise of his book is that there is no shortage. Blume needs to go to Africa and teach them to garden effectively and produce ethanol, avoiding western culture, thus bypassing the horrors of the Western World. But they've got to do it for themselves.

Altruism is a matter of the individual heart. If you want to help someone else, then do so. But it is theft to coerce others to do the same by law. Join a group, a church, a charity to help others in need, but do not make a church of the State.

There is no universal law of health care or survival in nature. You want alcohol? Produce alcohol. You want electric cars? Produce electric cars? You want organic foods? Produce organic foods. If you can do it better, then do it better; just as you do with sport aviation. Corporations, whether enterprise or civic, have no soul; but you do. It is each his own responsibility to live long and prosper without taking from or harming others.

Yet, a blessing, because of Blume's book I am slightly motivated to get off my fat ass and use my squatted two acres for more agrarian purposes. One day, we may all be horribly called to return to the earth.

Tinstaafl! There is no such thing as a free lunch.

In America, rather than consider our intercourse as one would the breeding of their goats, sheep, chickens or cattle for prosperity, we teach each other from cradle to grave to copulate like bunnies because it feels good, and then wonder what's wrong with our World.

Terry
 
Last edited:
Footnotes.

Footnotes.

The above solution from "Alcohol can be a gas" is only one of dozens that can be employed and on that note I am doing the book an injustice by just talking about one.

J
 
Great stuff

Great stuff

That's real cool Jonathon. Sounds great. Let us all know how it works out for you. Maybe we'll try it.

Share your business records with us in a year or two. I would be excited to see it.

Now, about guns. I have guns, all my friends have guns, but I don't know if any of us have anything we want. I own the largest, most advanced military on the planet, and I don't have anything I want. I pay for everything I get, and so does my military. Not only that, I am known for setting entire nations free of tyranny with my military, and not back charging for it.

I am real sorry to hear about David Blume's plight. It must be real miserable for him.

Terry

You have to understand where David has been and where he is trying to go. All his life he has been against the Goliath and he literally being "David".

Your analysis is intelligent but you are missing a component about the fact that throughout history there are ones that have the guns and they are the ones that have......anything they want. Africa is a problem which I will note in a moment.

What I have tried to do here is peak interest about the subject because I was one of the parroting idiots mind washed morons. Sound bites ruled my thoughts on the subject. Then I saw an interesting program about a local farmer who was growing organic. you have to remember that I live in a rural county where they do 2 or 3 crops a year. Corn, soybeans, winter wheat. Tobacco has all but gone from the county. So anyway this organic farmer was getting incredible yields from his green houses using nothing but earthworms. Incredible little creatures these worms are. Anyway the camera was following this man around his green houses and then they went out side and it was like a scene out of Jack and the bean stalk. Tomato plants 12' high. everything they looked at was over the top. then I remembered a neighbor I had back on Long Island. He had a cage of rabbits and they used the rabbit droppings to grow incredible foods in his backyard. Consider the backyard was no bigger than 30 by 60'. No chemicals, no GMO foods, No terminator seeds, No pesticides. No sterile soils ! And the food tasted out of this world !

So at the end of the interview with the man he mentioned how much this would feed and still have enough to make fuel to run everyones vehicles for a month ! This was just a "little greenhouse" and small farm. We are not talking dozens of acres.

So I started researching fuel from food and stumbled across knowledge publications. Blume is the authority on the subject and while you may not agree with some of his political takes on things, you would have to read the preface and the first chapter to understand the big picture. All in all I think he did a pretty good job tempering his personality with what he went through.

Ok so here is the 100 dollar answer to the folks that found my post so offensive, and those others that they had to move MY POST but left Scotts ethanol post intact in general. . I think my civil rights have been violated but at this moment I do not care. I know there is a rogue tree looking for a dirt bike rider at this very moment........

Ok so here is the answer.

Say corn does actually cost 4 or 5 bucks a bushel ? Ok we agree that farmers are now sticking it up everyones rear end and they are making killing on this corn bushel. Just go along with me for a moment, the issue is more complicated that that in reality. You the ethanol producer pay that outrageous sum and then burn fossil fuel, coal or your neighbors Mercedes to pay for the heat to cook off the mash to distill the alcohol. ? Well you can boo hoo hoo all you want, because doing that and only looking at that economic model is a losing game this is why myths get started.

Lets forget about the fact that the oil co's used numbers to push that myth from the Jack Daniels whiskey plant for a moment. Whiskey plants and like distillery do not care about reclaiming heat or being efficient they are making a killing on the booze. SO their studies are comparing apples to oranges. Not fair, at all.

Now the closed loop model in a nutshell. (how we should be doing it) For starters you are not using expensive seeds and having to use petrol based fertilizers, round up and taking a bath with 5 dollar a bushel corn, you are going back to organic farming. PERMACULTURE. Its a big word that requires study to understand but lets just for a moment say you are paying 5 bucks a bushel for the corn instead of a dollar, YOU COULD USE NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION SUGAR AT 19CENT A LB FROM MEXICOand really make a killing BUT FOR now you are retarded and want to use corn. [.because you want to feed the world high quality protein]. Now you make the mash, cook it off and now you have some excellent mash to feed your livestock, DDGS, (Dried Distillers grains). lets say cows. beef cows. not only will your cows grow at incredible rates, your time to fatten them up is much reduced. Old farmers that were cooking way back when got caught because their livestock were the best in show they were fat and strong and healthy. !!! Nothing grows livestock like DDGS.

Now you offset the cost of the 5 dollar corn by selling this supercharged animal feed for half for what you bought the corn for at 5 bucks. You have saved joe schmuck cattle farmer from 5 $ straight corn feed and now have provided him with an incredible feed !!!! .

Now you have fuel, and food for the price of fuel. Now I am not done yet stay with me boys and girls.......

You have all this livestock and all this poop, or manure to dispose of. you have all the droppings washed to a methane digester and you use the methane to fire the burners to cook your mash that makes the alcohol that provides the grains to the animals which in turn keep supplying you with endless poop which cook your mash.

DOES THIS ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS HOW WE WILL FEED THE WORLD AND HAVE FUEL FOR EVERYONE ???

Good by foreign oil ! Good by 1 trillion military budget, killing brown people overseas for energy resources. (well almost) Now I am not a tree hugger or algore lover ANY KID with a 3rd grade education can figure out bologna from fact in a short trip to the library....

It just is an elegant solution from a technical stand point.

Now all of you who thought I was full of it can paypal my 100 bucks per person to my email address. I think I have proved the POINT !

[email protected]

or postal mailing address upon request.

oh, and Africa. I have a customer whose son was a teacher, he majored in agriculture and went over to Africa to help feed and teach farmers over there how to grow and manage crops. He lived there less than a month where one day a rival tribe came with guns, burst into his class room and shot him in the head killing him. The reason was that he was working with a rival tribe, Now they all starve to death. and you can almost read the coverage in the alternative media how white farmers are being murdered over there because the "elected" leaders know they can do it better so now even more famine. True story.


Jonathan
 
If the food value of grain is less than its fuel value, the market will move the grain into the energy economy. Thus as the price of oil rises, the price of grain follows it upward.

Historically the food and energy economies have been largely separate, but now with the construction of so many fuel ethanol distilleries, they are merging. If the food value of grain is less than its fuel value, the market will move the grain into the energy economy. Thus as the price of oil rises, the price of grain follows it upward.

A University of Illinois economics team calculates that with oil at $50 a barrel, it is profitable—with the ethanol subsidy of 51¢ a gallon (equal to $1.43 per bushel of corn)—to convert corn into ethanol as long as the price is below $4 a bushel. But with oil at $100 a barrel, distillers can pay more than $7 a bushel for corn and still break even. If oil climbs to $140, distillers can pay $10 a bushel for corn—double the early 2008 price of $5 per bushel.

The U.S. now has almost 150 ethanol plants, nearly double the number from five years ago, and they produced 601,000 barrels per day (b/d) using 28% of the U.S. corn production.

14 million bbl/d U.S. oil comsumption in 2008
9.219 million bbl/d U.S. oil imports
4,955 million bbl/d U.S. oil production
0.601 million bbl/d U.S. ethanol prod. in 2008 (28% of total corn produced)

If we used 100% of the corn crop for ethanol that would be
2.146 bbl/d. ethanol.
****
Organic Farming?
The western corn rootworm (WCR) is considered an economic problem as
is the European Corn Borer. Crop rotation is the most consistent and economical means of controlling populations. Thus corn can be planted only every other year without using insecticide.

Seed density (cost) for planting corn depends on upland ground vs bottom ground, and dry land vs irrigated. The average corn production U.S. last year was 147 bbl/acre, nearly 20% greater than 5 years ago. Organic farming can only be done on naturally rich bottom ground. The poorer soils require much more nitrogen and water.

Cattle
Cattle prices and markets were great during the days of the Atkins diet! But today the trend is just the opposite and people tend to buy leaner beef.
Cattle prices are mostly dependent upon market demand which is a result of total population.

Distiller's grain is a high protein feed source. You take the spring cattle off pasture and in the last 90 days feed a diet such as sileage (fermented corn & stalks) or distiller's grain plus some roughage to produce the "fat cattle" for market. You can not afford distiller's grain except to fatten cattle, which takes only 90 days. Dairy cows have a need for the high protein & calorie diet, but still need roughage to balance their diet. Location is a problem as distiller's grain needs to be close (50 miles) to the feed lot.

The Anaerobic Digester for Cattle Manure has been done in the lab, but as of today, it has not been sucessful commercially. It is a good method for treating the manure for fertilizer, but the gas produced has not been significant.

Can ethanol be produced economically. Yes, in the right economic conditions. but those condition are fairly narrow.

Can ethanol replace imports or domestic production? No.
The U.S. does not have enough of the right type growing season, ground, and weather conditions. It can suppliment. But it is still very dependent on selling the distiller's grain.

Will the livestock market handle 3 times the distillers grain. Maybe at a low enough cost. There is a risk of a weak meat market with a higher population of cattle for slaughter.

My opinion; The volitility of the energy market adds additional risk onto the Ag markets that are already risky. You can allow oil companies to fail, but you can not invite farmers into the energy industry and let farmers fail. There becomes a high probablity of farmers failing tied to energy, and farm communities once gone will not recover.
 
Last edited:
Ok so here is the 100 dollar answer to the folks that found my post so offensive, and those others that they had to move MY POST but left Scotts ethanol post intact in general. . I think my civil rights have been violated but at this moment I do not care. I know there is a rogue tree looking for a dirt bike rider at this very moment........

Jonathan, you truely are the most manipulative SOB I think I have ever known. Can't you read? This is what I said

I am sitting on the fence as far as shutting down and deleting each and every one of these Ethanol threads. If you guys want to discuss how the fuel applies to our engines, fine....

And Fritz, if you have nothing to say here on this forum that applies to sport rotorcraft, then why post here?

Did it say I was going to only delete Jonathans threads? No....

Why would I want to delete it anyway? Hummmm.... You probably think cause it is a subject I don't like. Not true at all. No the real reason I would delete it, is cause you get people like Fritz who take the debate to a level that is out of hand, and Fritz is not the only one.

Then I have forum members who live in the corn belt, who farm corn for a living, pm'ing me and calling me, complaining that these subjects are unfairly biased and that they as farmers are being made out to look like crooks.

Truthfully, I could care less if people get pissed off at each other over a subject.... it makes for good drama, good entertainment. But it also makes us look like a bunch of jackasses to others, and that is why we have moderators on the forum to start with, to keep us from looking like jackasses.

Again Jonathan, read what I say and stop manipulating and twisting what I say to suit your agenda, it is tiring
 
As a third party looking in......Lanichol and Terry have just further reinforced my opinion on this ethanol topic. They dont have to use degrading name calling.....just facts. I would be sending them $100...:D



Stan
 
Hey Terry, wanna talk about how good your military is in liberating people?
I live in South America mind you . . . but maybe you can pick a Filipino and ask them how good is to be liberated.
So . . .you are the one, uh? I will send little Mustafa armless and blind for you to take care for life!
Keep pounding your chest, maybe that piece of ice in there will turn in to a heart!
Sheesh!
Heron
Ron, Mike and Todd, whey not apply fines for those who cross the line (first you must draw one) lets say 5 bucks and you are suspended untill payment is received? One pointo out the mistake, another second and one vote for penalty.
 
Top