Wanted: Rotor Blades

[Jim Edwards]

Sorry to post this way, but I can't get classified to take my post.
I need a set of Bensen-style blades to replace the ones I destroyed in my recent rollover. At this point in my search I've just about settled on a new 24' set from Neal Carnes (Falcon Industries). Are these good blades for hand-starting? Anyone know of good used blades for sale? My gyro is a Bensen modified to drop keel and 503 Rotax, Warp 3-blade prop. Thanks
Jim
[email protected]
479-747-4323

 

[Mike Schallmann]

Are these the Extruded Blades ? If they are they are pretty good. Ive used these blades for about 12 years now. The last set I got From Neal (approx)1-1/2 yrs ago were a nightmare though. One of the blades had a twist in it and I had one hell of a stick shake. After all kinds of telephone calls and discussion with Neal he finally agreed to relace the twisted blade. The blades work OK now--
In my previous use with these blade I mated them to a McCutchen Hub Bar-- This time I bought his hubbar-while it works OK it is a lot harder to adjust than the McCutchen bar.I would recommend getting a McCutchen Hubbar and going that route--

And Yes they can be hand started--but be aware these are HEAVY Blades -a 23' set will probably weigh 65# or more

 

[animal]

Mike how hard was it to adapt to the McCutchen Hub? I am looking for blade for my Falcon also, need 27' blades. had wondered how the Extruded blades flew. I like sky wheels, but they are getting hard to find.

what size chord and style fits the Mc hub?

 

[giro5]

I have 23 ft Neal Carnes rotorhawk blades on my kb2. I have only flown it on a boom tow. The blades are heavy about 76 lbs counting the hub bar. But they hand start easily, just keep your ground speed down to 5 to 10 mph till they get to around 120 rpm. My blades are out of balance by the weight of 2 pennies out on the tip on one blade. I could not keep the pennies on the blades but without them the blades are absoultely smooth. No stick shake at all.

 

[CLS447]

Jim, I almost hate to say anything but ....I have a set of Brock blades that are Brand new. The reason is because I am not going to "give" them away. They are either 23' or 24'.

People who have changed to other blades(particularly DWs) have said that they would never go back !

I am saying that your money could be spent more wisely.

But that hand start thing could be a problem with DWs.

Have you actually talked with Neil recently ?


Mike,
Other than finding a set of McCutchen blades to fit a spare hub(and have the holes line up), this seems to be the only alternative for a spare hub.

I have a very nice 5ft. McCutchen hub bar that needs blades. I always like to think that this will be the thing for me to do with it.

Maybe make a set of 30ft with it . Could the length be reduced later & by how much(minimum).

I know that this has been talked about before but I always like to hear the success stories of you & others that have done this "conversion".

Thanks

PS. Tim you can do a search on this subject if Mike doesn't feel like explaining it all again(but I hope he does). I would also like to hear from others that have done this & have used them for as long as Mike has.

 

[Mike Schallmann]

Ive got the process written down in one of my files somewhere in my computer. I'll look for it when I get back from the Copperstate EAA Fly In that Im going to today. Mating the Extruded blades to the MCCutchen hubbar is pretty straight forward an since they weigh about the same as the McCutchen Blades they perform about the same--

 

[animal]

that sounds like the route I would like to go. now to find a McCuth. hub for sale.

I have not flown the blades my self since not soloed but I like they way they proform. if the extruded Rotorhawks fly about the same then I think that will be the route to go if I can find the Hub.

 

[Jim Edwards]

Jim, I almost hate to say anything but ....I have a set of Brock blades that are Brand new. The reason is because I am not going to "give" them away. They are either 23' or 24'.

People who have changed to other blades(particularly DWs) have said that they would never go back !

I am saying that your money could be spent more wisely.

But that hand start thing could be a problem with DWs.

Have you actually talked with Neil recently ?

I have talked to Neal, and it looks like I'll have to go that route, if I'm unable to find good used blades. My gyro does not yet have a prerotor. I hear DW are hard to start, and maybe a little "high-performance" for a beginner like me. That's why I'm looking for Bensen style blades. My hub is a 3' extended Bensen. I assume the brock blades will mate to the bar? Do you know what they weigh? How much do you need for the Brock blades? You can PM me with the price if you don't want the price to be public. Thanks for the response.
Jim

 

[Mike Schallmann]

Heres the info on the blades------

Its really quite simple to use the Skywheel Hub Bar . The Fleck/Vortech airfoils are the same as the Skywheel section so the assembly is pretty easy. The Fleck Blades are slightly wider in Chord (approx .085) so this amount will have to be trimmed from the trailing edge so the blade can slip into the cavity (approx 12 inches) .Also since the cavity is molded of fiberglass the "corners" inside the base if the cavity are not square. It will also be necessary to slightly "round off " or "ease" the leading and trailing edge corners of the blades as well as knock off the squareness on the end of the blade. This takes less than a minute per blade and can be done with a medium file. Once the blade slips into the cavity it is a simple matter to drill the boltholes through the blade. You can do this by hand or with a drill press. If you use a drill press I DO NOT recommend that you try to make the hole in ONE pass --if you are not EXACTLY lined up you will ruin the project. I have a drill press but did not use it --I did it by hand.

The first thing you should make is a cheap jig --two sheets of plywood and some short pieces of 2x4 blocking will help in keeping everything aligned while you are doing the drilling. In addition to the 8 3/8-inch attachment bolts and the 4 5/16-secondary attachment bolts you will need to fabricate an alignment pin and a bushing. The Alignment pin is nothing more than a 3/8 inch bolt with the threads cut off - the length of the clean shank needs to be about 1/4 inch longer than the bushing. Either buy or make a drill bushing that are 3/8" OD with an inside dia that will pass a smaller 1/4" drill with close tolerance, for instance a short piece of 3/8 x .062 tube will have an I.D. of .251 -a quarter inch drill will pass through it nicely. Be sure to mark the hub bar cavities A and B and each blade with an A or a B. Slide the A blade into the A cavity. Insert the bushing in the outermost hole in the hub bar and carefully drill the hole as nearly as vertical as possible. Remove the bushing and using progressively larger bits enlarge the hole to 3/8. (when I did mine I drilled to 23/64 and used a 3/8 reamer for the final pass. Place the alignment pin in the hole and flip the blade assy over. Drill the opposing hole in the same manner. Remove the bushing and install one of the #/8 bolts and tighten securely (approx. 10ft lb. of torque) complete the remaining 3/8 holes in the same manner for that blade. The next step is to drill the two 5/16 leading edge attachment bolts. The bolts are placed parallel to the main bolts and half the distance between the first and second; and third and fourth main bolt. Just be sure that these bolts pass as close as possible through the center of the leading edge insert in the blade. Next unbolt the assembly, remove the blade and clean up any burrs -- now repeat the procedure for the second blade.

The instructions that Vortech provides is how to assemble the blades --not how to put them in the Mc Cutchen hub --here's a tip on balancing them --don't add tip weight --simply drill out the end of the nose weight on the heavy blade -- I found that they balance very easily --in fact on one set they didn't need ANY additional metal removal after assembly --these are great blades!!
________

 

[CLS447]

Jim, this is a complete blade setup....blades & hub bar. I believe that they would be identical to Bensen blades.....anybody ?

Now before I get the box down & take pictures again, are you sure that you want to go this route?

I figure that I will never use them for flying as long as I have my DWs.

I believe that the higher performance blades would help a beginner, not hinder. But the hand start thing is an issue. A prerotator is much safer IMHO !

Is $1000 + Shipping enough to change your mind.....if not we can go from here.

Read this....http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=927

PS Does anyone have a 3' McCutchen hub for sale ?

 

[gyroplanes]

I have a bunch of McCutchen hub bars in stock. They are all the late model, shorter variety. I have the for sale bars mixed in with the needed bars (match my blade numbers) I don't know when I can find the time to sort them out. Make me an offer and I'll do the best I can time wise. Tom Milton [email protected]

 

[CLS447]

There you go Tim(animal) ! I think I will be holding on to my 5' hub.

Tommy, I need to call you soon about a lower drive for my C-box. Is there only one to choose from?

What drive wheel are you using? The Darnell ?

 

[animal]

yeah I saw that Chris, I already sent Tom and E-mail to find out what kind of price. No hurry.
But I do believe this is the route I want to go Hub bar wise.

Since I know I won't have a hanger to keep mine at with the blades on I think this will be the easyest and fasted hub to use when having to remove the blades every time.

 

[animal]

Mike can you post a Pic of the hub with the blades in it showing the Bolt pattern lay out.

if I am reading right you have a few 5/16 bolts thru the leading edge of the blades,these I would think if I read right passing thru the nose weight/spar of the Blades right? there by assureing the spar can not ever sling out.

 

[Mike Schallmann]

Animal I dont have a picture of my old set up --but I have several Hubbars (not for sale) I'll dig one out this weekend and take a pix of where I put the bolts at--
Yes the bolts go through the hubbar and the nose weight spar to keep the noseweight in place--also when I put my blades together I JB welded the noseweight in place to help hold it in place. Neil dosent do this but I figuired it cant hurt!!

These are still my blade of preference and I have used /flown with Dragon Wings, Rotordynes, McCutchen, and Benson Blades --they are all good and have their points --but I seem to like these best

 

[animal]

Ok cool Mike, the price is good for the Rotorhawk extruded. and I like the way Skywheels are easy to install and fly. sounds like the best of both worlds. I figure buy as long as blades as I can, then if they are to long I can trim them down some.

 

[Mike Schallmann]

Animal I havent forgot I just havent had time to get the stuff out for a pix --will do this week --

 

[GyroRon]

that sounds like the route I would like to go. now to find a McCuth. hub for sale.

I have not flown the blades my self since not soloed but I like they way they proform. if the extruded Rotorhawks fly about the same then I think that will be the route to go if I can find the Hub.

Just a FYI.... if you plan on having me test fly your gyro, you better keep looking for blades, I am not flying those extruded blades.

 

[animal]

What would you suggest Ron, I dought I will be able to find what I need anyway, I need about 27' blades, so far I have only found the short hub bars. if money was not an option I would love to get a set of sport copter blades, I have a feeling I may end up haveing to change out rotorheads before it is over with.
I just know I hate to sink alot of money into my first set of blades.

Anyway yesterday I listed My Harley and several other small items on craigslist.
My goal is to have it ready to fly by spring.

It is getting real close now, but I know I am at the point where I have to spend the big bucks to complete it, ( blades, prerotator,better wheels with brakes and Radio and better GPS ) Now to get the bike sold and the real hunt can begin.

 

[giro5]

Animal at the risk of opening old wounds putting Neil's blades on the McCutchen hub could have risks. I am not 100 percent sure if it was a McCuthcen hub but there was a fatality in Puerto Rico when a set of Neils blades were adapted to someone else's hub. There is a balance piece in the extruded blades that was not reinstalled properly and it flew out while the plane was in the air resulting in catastrophic rotor and plane and pilot destruction. This is not a trivial matter.
If you want to hand start the rotors look into sportcopters. They are supposed to hand start ok. Pricewise they and DW's are more than Neils but worth lookin at.