Introducing the CRUISER - a new side-by-side design from Niki Rotor Aviation...

[Greg Vos]

I too think the fancy tail it amazing. Dick Degraw uses something similar on his Rhino. I was just giving my humble opinion as to why they are using a belt drive instead of a gear box.

The belt isn’t as a good power transmitter in my opinion. Most people think those belts isolate the engine pulses like the rubber bumper in the gear box they don’t at all. They are called a poly chain for a reason.

Well let’s look at high torque Harleys or the big V twin customs ( think 124 cu inch mill) they run a belt at final drive they can wheel spin a 320kg bike and after initial running in need only one readjustment to remove slack in the final belt drive.
I used to own an older Harley where we had a belt drive as the primary from the crank to the gearbox …the belts did seem very bullet proof, BMW on some of the smaller bikes powered by Rotax are using belt in final drive

The rotax gearbox can wear and often does removing it saves weight, complexity with the Cush drive slipper clutch and so on, a belt on final seems like a great solution RAF use it to we don’t see many reported issues with it, but then here locally we don’t have many RAF’s flying

 

[MikeBoyette]

Well as I understand it the forces on a prop driving engine are different. The stress is higher as well. I know someone who ran a RAF belt drive on his Dominator and it ate itself quite a few times. They just don’t soften the pulses from the engine very well.

I might catch hell for this but did you honestly use Harley as an example of something being reliable? Up until recently they were overpriced loud junk. That for some reason yuppies glommed on to and decided to be bikers. I had a friend who had a brand new Yamaha V-twin that ran like a top. It was smooth and sounded good. Just a great bike. He went to Bike Week in Daytona and let those brain washed HD people bully him into trading that quality motorcycle that had less than 1000 miles on it for a Hardly Runs Davidson. The irony of the whole thing is when they left Daytona on the way back to the Tampa area that used POS broke down in front of the Yamaha dealership he bought his good bike at. Other than a V-rod they are build like an air compressor as a new friend told me yesterday. He got conned into getting one and kept pouring money into it. Sold it to his friend reluctantly who very shortly had to replace the transmission. My new friend replaced it with a BMW that’s twice the quality for half the price.

 

[Aerofoam]

I had smooth running, high revving Jap. bikes and we use to comment on having to have someone follow the Harley riders to pick up all the parts that shook off......

 

[Abid]

What alloy aluminum do they use Abid? Most blades made from an extrusion I know of use 6063 T3 because 6061 T6 is harder to push through a die especially one that big?

6061 can definitely be extruded. I don't remember off hand but Averso is either 6061 or 2014. Definitely not 6063
There is a factory right in Oldsmar who does long and large 6061 extrusions

 

[MikeBoyette]

I had smooth running, high revving Jap. bikes and we use to comment on having to have someone follow the Harley riders to pick up all the parts that shook off......

Yep that’s what ya get when a company prides themselves in not balancing their engine. It is most certainly not a great example of American ingenuity. How they were the only American Motorcycle to succeed is a mystery to me. Was there not a company that built a bike the quality of a Japanese bike? I tried ride one once and it was impossible. I was surprisingly able to figure out the suicide shifter and I think foot clutch maybe. It’s been so long I don’t remember particulars. I rode it down to the end of the 1/2 mile road I lived on I turned around got about 1/2 way back and the POS quit. We had to push it back. For the next few hours I felt like my whole body was vibrating like a Hardly. Wouldn’t take one as a gift. Well that’s BS I would take it and immediately sell it to a yuppie biker.

 

[Abid]

Interesting topic this ..I am at our factory in Sasolburg the week of the. 15th, we extrude our own blades I will drill down to find out what material and make up it is.
I know that on the Trojan the mounting plates and holes and end design of the grips was well thought out topic, here is a pic of it as reference
blades and mounting points have always been a thing I wonder about when I’m flying enthusiastically

Interesting assembly. Not sure there is any coning built in. If not the bending cycles and load is all in the blades but it is hard to tell by looking at the picture alone, How do you adjust for tracking in dynamic balancing

 

[MikeBoyette]

6061 can definitely be extruded. I don't remember off hand but Averso is either 6061 or 2014. Definitely not 6063
There is a factory right in Oldsmar who does long and large 6061 extrusions

I hope you meant 2024. Well like I said most are done with 6063 because most places don’t have the capability. There were quite a few that came out like that in the late 90’s made here in the states. The aluminum was almost dead soft. People would just get an old McCutchen hub and plug those blades in and drill the holes. Some were supplied with solid aluminum rods to glue in with JB weld or something to make it stronger. Glad to see they are doing it right.

 

[Greg Vos]

Well as I understand it the forces on a prop driving engine are different. The stress is higher as well. I know someone who ran a RAF belt drive on his Dominator and it ate itself quite a few times. They just don’t soften the pulses from the engine very well.

I might catch hell for this but did you honestly use Harley as an example of something being reliable? Up until recently they were overpriced loud junk. That for some reason yuppies glommed on to and decided to be bikers. I had a friend who had a brand new Yamaha V-twin that ran like a top. It was smooth and sounded good. Just a great bike. He went to Bike Week in Daytona and let those brain washed HD people bully him into trading that quality motorcycle that had less than 1000 miles on it for a Hardly Runs Davidson. The irony of the whole thing is when they left Daytona on the way back to the Tampa area that used POS broke down in front of the Yamaha dealership he bought his good bike at. Other than a V-rod they are build like an air compressor as a new friend told me yesterday. He got conned into getting one and kept pouring money into it. Sold it to his friend reluctantly who very shortly had to replace the transmission. My new friend replaced it with a BMW that’s twice the quality for half the price.

Don’t want to contaminate this thread ….I own three Harley’s all bullet proof and monster mothers …no drama, I also own a new Ducati limited edition…all singing all dancing all Italian ….that has given me soooo much trouble

 

[Greg Vos]

Interesting assembly. Not sure there is any coning built in. If not the bending cycles and load is all in the blades but it is hard to tell by looking at the picture alone, How do you adjust for tracking in dynamic balancing

The tracking is the same as the Magni head with an adjustable settings, ( in teeter shaft adjustment left or right) as for the rest I’m not sure, by all means drop us an email with your questions and I’m sure our engineers will answer them in the most technical and detailed way. Blade balancing is achieved with in flight data reading on a Chadwick and placing tip weights exactly where they are need via polar chart analysis. I’m a pilot my job is to fly it and to report what I feel in flight and to gain data from hundreds of sensors fitted during testing, Johan our chief designer is pedantic about vibration and harmonics and I’m sure he will be able to answer anything you throw at him.

Mike G has visited our factory in SA and all he can say is our chief designer is a very clever guy and he must be to produce a machine this robust and easy to build and repair.Mike also does not suffer fools easily and I’m sure he can comment on our blade assembly …as for the coning angle? good observation and I can’t answer as to why? Then again my xenon does not have built in coning either, my Magni had it but the the Magni had a different blade composition to the light extruded aluminium blade used

 

[Abid]

The tracking is the same as the Magni head with an adjustable settings, ( in teeter shaft adjustment left or right) as for the rest I’m not sure, by all means drop us an email with your questions and I’m sure our engineers will answer them in the most technical and detailed way. Blade balancing is achieved with in flight data reading on a Chadwick and placing tip weights exactly where they are need via polar chart analysis. I’m a pilot my job is to fly it and to report what I feel in flight and to gain data from hundreds of sensors fitted during testing, Johan our chief designer is pedantic about vibration and harmonics and I’m sure he will be able to answer anything you throw at him.

Mike G has visited our factory in SA and all he can say is our chief designer is a very clever guy and he must be to produce a machine this robust and easy to build and repair.Mike also does not suffer fools easily and I’m sure he can comment on our blade assembly …as for the coning angle? good observation and I can’t answer as to why? Then again my xenon does not have built in coning either, my Magni had it but the the Magni had a different blade composition to the light extruded aluminium blade used

Some Averso do not have any coning in the hub bar also but their blades can handle the bending cycle per FEA analysis. Most other extruded blades will not because they have no steel in them and they are much lighter. Simply not enough there to handle the fatigue that can set in.

 

[querist]

Yep that’s what ya get when a company prides themselves in not balancing their engine. It is most certainly not a great example of American ingenuity. How they were the only American Motorcycle to succeed is a mystery to me. Was there not a company that built a bike the quality of a Japanese bike? I tried ride one once and it was impossible. I was surprisingly able to figure out the suicide shifter and I think foot clutch maybe. It’s been so long I don’t remember particulars. I rode it down to the end of the 1/2 mile road I lived on I turned around got about 1/2 way back and the POS quit. We had to push it back. For the next few hours I felt like my whole body was vibrating like a Hardly. Wouldn’t take one as a gift. Well that’s BS I would take it and immediately sell it to a yuppie biker.

Indian is making a comeback.

 

[MikeBoyette]

Not real familiar with Indian. I think they use basically the same engine a Hardly? V-twin with a belt drive or maybe they are more modern and have a real transmission with new fangled gears? Maybe even a new thing called a weight on the crankshaft so it doesn’t shake your teeth out of your head?

 

[Aerofoam]

I have to admit to liking some of the early Indian and Harleys, but I wouldn't want one.
I had one thumper bike, a BMW RSLS which was the "Sort Of" sport bike they did in the 80's.
Anemic, heavy and thumping, I'll take a 4cyl. Honda over it any time....

 

[querist]

Not real familiar with Indian. I think they use basically the same engine a Hardly? V-twin with a belt drive or maybe they are more modern and have a real transmission with new fangled gears? Maybe even a new thing called a weight on the crankshaft so it doesn’t shake your teeth out of your head?

I don't know if they use the same engine as a Harley, but the were and are good bikes. The company apparently stopped producing bikes for a while but is back now and making new models. My father-in-law had a Scout back in the day.

 

[WaspAir]

Indian has been through several reincarnations over the years. Up until the early 1950s they were arch rival competitors with Harley, from Springfield, Mass. Some engines had similar layout to Harleys but the only interchangable parts would have been consumables like tires, light bulbs, or maybe spark plugs. They went out of business as did every other U.S. builder other than Harley back then. Several companies have brought the trademark back to life over the years since, with varying success. One more recent incarnation, from Gilroy, CA, benefitted from the technical contributions of our own Vance, as I recall. Last time I checked, Polaris was the current builder.

 

[DavePA11]

I have to admit to liking some of the early Indian and Harleys, but I wouldn't want one.
I had one thumper bike, a BMW RSLS which was the "Sort Of" sport bike they did in the 80's.
Anemic, heavy and thumping, I'll take a 4cyl. Honda over it any time....

Which Honda?

 

[ultracruiser41]

I like Indians

 

[Aerofoam]

Which Honda?

CBR's are nice. A friend told me there are small Asian versions that are limited in CCs, so they have 125's through 350's that are very high revving.
I don't know if they still make these...
Yamaha has some awesome street bikes too...
I went coast to coast on a 1972 CB 750 and drove it around the Phx. area for a few years until I got hit 3 times....
I briefly had an 86 FS600 in 2007 that had been a track bike, but was street legal. It was awesome, but frightening.
I weigh about 190 and could not go full throttle in 1st. through 3rd. without the front end coming up....
I joked that it was a binary bike with 2 speeds, extremely rough idle and jump to hyper space!
It sounded like an F1 race car.... I'm drooling a little now....
I haven't rode on the street for over 10 years and I had given it up in about 1985 until a brief excursion with the Yamaha and BMW during a Sandia project in 2007 and 2008.

 

[Mayfield]

I hope I can ride and fly for a few more years. Although I really like the Indian Scout or the HD Sportster, my little Yamaha is a lot of bike for the money.

 

[Loren Jones]

I hope I can ride and fly for a few more years. Although I really like the Indian Scout or the HD Sportster, my little Yamaha is a lot of bike for the money.

The Yamaha probably doesn't shake the fillings out of your mouth!