This 'cookie-cutter' approach with "regulation" is wrong as it does not take individual ability in to account.I think the problem can be broken down into five components, listed in order of ease of solution.
REGULATION. How many hours does your country stipulate as the minimum training? 20? Something is wrong then. Try 40, with a realistic target of 60 for the Average Joe, before you solo.
TRAINING. What is the quality of your country's training? Is it up to date? Best Practice? Peer-reviewed? ADM emphasized as much as the pilot inputs?
USAGE. Does your country permit gyros for commercial activities? Ag. Ops. ? Well, make sure you are getting training over and above that required for recreational bimbling [q.v. the scumbag South African company who was sending young men on Ag. Ops in gyros after twenty hours training - to cut financial corners. 3 lives lost...]
ENVIRONMENTAL. Does your training focus on environmental factors peculiar to your own country or location? (flying a gyro in South Africa or Australia will be very different to flying in the UK or Sweden). Hot/High/Humid? Unusual winds? Wide-open wildernesses with nothing (but the occasional and fatal wire)?
CULTURAL. Basically, are you constitutionally-permitted to kill yourself doing the thing you love, with no-one caring so much? If so, pay even more attention to the above topics...
This 'cookie-cutter' approach with "regulation" is wrong as it does not take individual ability in to account.
Some 'get it' much sooner than others and some never 'get it' at all.
Just spouting off some number (20?40?60?) of government-knows-best hours is stupid.
Really? Turn the Average Joe loose to solo when he reaches the 'magic' number of hours regardless of his demonstrated ability?
Training should be based on the individual's mastery of the machine/maneuvers, NOT some arbitrary, regulation-determined number of hours.
Put your trust to determine such in a good CFI, not the government.
Brian
So, Javier, does the government think that Spanish pilots are less healthy than French pilots?
Is there any data to suggest such?
If not, this is just another example of arbitrary government regulation.
Yes, we should all be healthy, but I'm VERY, VERY sure that you do not go get that class 2 check-up before every flight; thus, YOU (the individual) has the GREATEST responsibility to assure that you are healthy enough to pilot an aircraft on each occasion that you do so.
"Individual responsibility/ability" is the core message.
Hats off to you guys for being so expert, but boy I don't want to get anywhere near any aircraft that is likely to put me 'in the blink of an eye and un-commanded and unexpected' 'standing on your tail lookin straight up almost vertical'.In my opinion, most individuals that are taught in a Euro-style gyro never get beyond flying the numbers.
When I transitioned into gyro's in the mid 90's. I flew with Ed Alderfer in his SxS and the Tandem Air Commands with Subaru engines.
You had to learn how to sail the rotor and using only a minimal amount of pre-rotor and mostly only the air flow to spin it up. You learned to visually see the blades turn into a flicker and then a blur to determine the rotors rpm and flight rpm. you did not go to full power until after there was more than sufficient rotor rpm. Then you add the fact of a chunky country boy in the right or rear seat. You had to fly the rotor, because on a higher density day. you might achieve 200' minute rate of climb. Sometimes we clawed for every inch of altitude we managed to squeeze out. You learned to manage the energy you felt within the rotor.
And you ain't lived until your flying under an old school set of 29' McCutchens' and in the blink of an eye and un-commanded un-expected, you are standing on your tail looking straight up almost vertical. You will go land and take a lunch break after that happens, and maybe even change the fruit of the looms.
Very few of the Euro guys could take an old school gyro and hand pat the blades and get it into the air and then go ring it out in the flight box and just go play hard. Most would flap the blades on take off; because they have never learned rotor management skills that are needed.
But, I will admit. My Tandem Dominator has made me a bit lazy!
I said "minimum."Some 'get it' much sooner than others and some never 'get it' at all.
Just spouting off some number (20?40?60?) of government-knows-best hours is stupid.
Really? Turn the Average Joe loose to solo when he reaches the 'magic' number of hours regardless of his demonstrated ability?
In my opinion, most individuals that are taught in a Euro-style gyro never get beyond flying the numbers.
When I transitioned into gyro's in the mid 90's. I flew with Ed Alderfer in his SxS and the Tandem Air Commands with Subaru engines.
You had to learn how to sail the rotor and using only a minimal amount of pre-rotor and mostly only the air flow to spin it up. You learned to visually see the blades turn into a flicker and then a blur to determine the rotors rpm and flight rpm. you did not go to full power until after there was more than sufficient rotor rpm. Then you add the fact of a chunky country boy in the right or rear seat. You had to fly the rotor, because on a higher density day. you might achieve 200' minute rate of climb. Sometimes we clawed for every inch of altitude we managed to squeeze out. You learned to manage the energy you felt within the rotor.
And you ain't lived until your flying under an old school set of 29' McCutchens' and in the blink of an eye and un-commanded un-expected, you are standing on your tail looking straight up almost vertical. You will go land and take a lunch break after that happens, and maybe even change the fruit of the looms.
Very few of the Euro guys could take an old school gyro and hand pat the blades and get it into the air and then go ring it out in the flight box and just go play hard. Most would flap the blades on take off; because they have never learned rotor management skills that are needed.
But, I will admit. My Tandem Dominator has made me a bit lazy!
I may be misunderstanding what you are writing David.In my opinion, most individuals that are taught in a Euro-style gyro never get beyond flying the numbers.
When I transitioned into gyro's in the mid 90's. I flew with Ed Alderfer in his SxS and the Tandem Air Commands with Subaru engines.
You had to learn how to sail the rotor and using only a minimal amount of pre-rotor and mostly only the air flow to spin it up. You learned to visually see the blades turn into a flicker and then a blur to determine the rotors rpm and flight rpm. you did not go to full power until after there was more than sufficient rotor rpm. Then you add the fact of a chunky country boy in the right or rear seat. You had to fly the rotor, because on a higher density day. you might achieve 200' minute rate of climb. Sometimes we clawed for every inch of altitude we managed to squeeze out. You learned to manage the energy you felt within the rotor.
And you ain't lived until your flying under an old school set of 29' McCutchens' and in the blink of an eye and un-commanded un-expected, you are standing on your tail looking straight up almost vertical. You will go land and take a lunch break after that happens, and maybe even change the fruit of the looms.
Very few of the Euro guys could take an old school gyro and hand pat the blades and get it into the air and then go ring it out in the flight box and just go play hard. Most would flap the blades on take off; because they have never learned rotor management skills that are needed.
But, I will admit. My Tandem Dominator has made me a bit lazy!
Good luck with that."Individual responsibility/ability" is the core message.
Can you give some examples of the risky behavior? It must be an interesting chat that gets them to up and sell their machines right away...In our club at Anahuac, we look out for one another. We have discussed the traits of some newbies that exhibit risky behavior and tell them that this type of flying is not for them. Most heed the advice and sell their machines.
Where did I write that they sell their machines "right away"? "Please, please don't assume things I did not actually say" (Your own quote from the thread "Fatal AR1 Crash"). Call me at 2817995115 if you need specific details. Also, read the FAA handbook "Risk Management". Lots of useful info there as well.Can you give some examples of the risky behavior? It must be an interesting chat that gets them to up and sell their machines right away...
One must first understand the mind of a bureaucrat: Regulations are good, and the more convoluted, the better. Regulations employ people and make society safer/better. Licensing (and especially convoluted regulation) protects business because there is a barrier to competition. Licensing and regulations also provide good opportunities for graft, which is generally favored by the established group in power. Sometimes the graft is explicit, other times its through the hiring of consultants (who can magically navigate the convoluted rules).Most governments care but little about the health or welfare of the governed. Instead, they endeavour to suppress liberties and to tighten regulations of all sorts. I feel the need for a revolution, but a real revolution, with terror and guillotines. There may be no other way to suppress that unbearable bureaucracy...
My experience with the FAA has been rather different. I have encountered no graft, no business protectionism, and no intent to make things convoluted. Most of them are honestly trying to walk a difficult line between flying freedom and public safety. They don't always get it right, but the motives are not venal, corrupt, or unworthy.One must first understand the mind of a bureaucrat: Regulations are good, and the more convoluted, the better. Regulations employ people and make society safer/better. Licensing (and especially convoluted regulation) protects business because there is a barrier to competition. Licensing and regulations also provide good opportunities for graft, which is generally favored by the established group in power. Sometimes the graft is explicit, other times its through the hiring of consultants (who can magically navigate the convoluted rules).
I apologise for seeming to imply something that you did not mean. You said "we... tell them that this type of flying is not for them. Most heed the advice and sell their machines." You did not say how long heeding the advice followed the giving of it; it just sounded like the one followed soon upon the other.Where did I write that they sell their machines "right away"? "Please, please don't assume things I did not actually say" (Your own quote from the thread "Fatal AR1 Crash"). Call me at 2817995115 if you need specific details. Also, read the FAA handbook "Risk Management". Lots of useful info there as well.