“Why can’t I land a gyroplane like you Vance?”

[Vance]

I had this question from a primary student with ten landings in his log book on his second visit for instruction.

I had not flown with him in several months so we spent .8 hours on ground reference maneuvers, debriefed and then briefed for takeoffs and landings.

We few patterns for an hour and made five landings and takeoffs flying a close pattern with an operating control tower.

On his last landing I could barely feel the touch down and the GPS had us a 3kts on touch down. This is what is known colloquially as a greaser.

This client is a tightly wound over achiever and feels frustrated because every landing is not a “greaser”.

As an instructor I am amazed at his progress and realize he has no one to compare his progress to.

It is my observation that the majority of gyroplane accidents happen during the takeoff and landing phases of flight.

I started to break it down, five landings in an hour or a landing every 12 minutes. How much time is actually spent landing from the round out to being stopped on the runway? Perhaps 20 seconds?

So with ten landings in his log book he has spent a total of 200 seconds (less than three and a half minutes) and he wonders why he hasn’t learned a task heavy and complex series of control inputs equal to someone with over 3,500 landings in his log book (about nineteen hours of landing experience).

Not all of my landings are greasers and every landing is different.

I continue to learn from every landing and every client.

 

[HighAltitude]

Your analysis is true as to the actual time spent landing. However, I have been told by more than one CFI that the landing begins on the downwind leg at midfield. My tail wheel instructor was so adamant that if I was not set up on speed, altitude, and flaps by the turn, he felt that it would be difficult to set it all up on base and final. On debrief, I would admit that the sketchy landings began in the downwind leg. The entire hour was work in the mind of the student. Just as we get up safely and turn cross, we get a minute to take a breath and then the landing is upon us! The more a student "gets it" the more things seem to slow down and time stretches out.

My first lesson with you was a lot to take in but I seem to recall a similar situation on a couple (or all) of my landings where I was too high or had the wrong power setting on base. IMHO, a student's brain will tend to be 10 or 15 seconds behind reality as he tries to "fix" and "learn" what he just did wrong 10 seconds ago instead of focusing on the task at hand. After 5 or 10 in a row, I am simply worn out mentally. I have never asked a CFI to go out and do some other maneuvers and then try 5 more landings but I wonder if that might work. I have always raised the white flag and asked to call it a day. A little break in the air might actually work! After all, who does 5 or 10 landings in a row every flight?

On the other hand, in my FW that I am completely one with, I am at least 10 seconds ahead of the plane. My thoughts are "I'm gonna be ___ so I will ___" and get back on the desired path. I can only guess that a CFI is always 20 seconds ahead because they seem to calmly know exactly when we are drifting away from the desired result AND a CFI already knows what our correction should be AND what their correction should be if we don't do it in short order.

I would really like to know if he remembers the previous take off and pattern before the greased landing? Was it an uneventful take off and pattern run to the turn to base?

Of course my hypothesis could be only my wacky brain and my feelings. Oh well, it will help you during my next lesson LOL.

 

[HighAltitude]

Great topic BTW.

 

[Vance]

If I have my druthers I wander off and do ground reference maneuvers, debrief and brief for pattern work.

It gives my clients a renewed understanding of the sight picture that is so important for landing.

In my opinion many clients stop learning after forty minutes in the pattern from sensory and information overload.

In this case remembering all clients are different his first takeoff was what I refer to as the drunken sailor takeoff and his second takeoff was satisfactory. His first three landings were not ideal. The second to last was nice although a little fast and the last landing was a greaser.

I felt the debrief went well with good recall of the details and sight picture of each landing.

The point of the story was why it takes so much dual instruction to land. Most of the time is spent doing other things besides landing.

In my opinion the setup to land is not as important in a gyroplane as it is in a fixed wing although there is no discounting the value of a stabilized approach.

As far as I am concerned Tim you already land well enough to not hurt the aircraft and more pattern work will just be about managing the wind and accuracy in landing.

The practical test standards for normal and crosswind approach and landing are:

B. TASK: NORMAL AND CROSSWIND APPROACH AND LANDING
REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-21; Gyroplane Flight Manual.

Objective. To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to normal and crosswind approach and landing.

2. Considers the wind conditions, landing surface, and obstacles.

3. Selects a suitable touchdown point.

4. Establishes and maintains a stabilized approach at the recommended airspeed with gust correction factor applied, ±5 knots.

5. Establishes and maintains proper ground track with crosswind correction, as necessary.

6. Remains aware of the possibility of wind shear and/or wake turbulence.

7. Makes smooth, timely, and correct control application during the flare and touchdown.

8. Touches down smoothly, at a reduced forward airspeed beyond and within 200 feet of a specified point with no appreciable drift, and with the longitudinal axis aligned with the intended landing path.

9. Maintains crosswind correction and directional control throughout the approach and landing sequence.

I feel it is safe to say many of the landings you witnessed at Mentone were not to practical test standards and some of mine aren’t.

Because most gyroplane accidents happen during takeoff and landing they are important skills to learn well.

In my opinion Tim; it won’t take much dual and solo for you to become one with your gyroplane.

 

[HighAltitude]

Mentone was a great experience for me and well worth the time and expense. The spot landing competition taught me a huge lesson about how it's not so easy to drop a gyro on a spot three times.

 

[DavePA11]

I agree with Vance with the respect setup for landing is not as important in gyro as fixed wing.

Also, with hundreds of landings off airport in a Cub, the downwind setup has little impact on the landing. It’s all about setup on final and understanding your surrounding conditions, environment, limitations of the aircraft and pilot limitations. For learning students, I can understand why a CFI states it’s important to have good downwind setup, but once the pilot becomes more proficient at flying his plane it’s not as important. IMO. Landing off airport adds whole other set of complexities making sure you land and avoid any obstacles normally not found at airports, such as holes, trees, wires, signs, deer, sticks, rocks, fences, birds, hills, etc. Lots of fun. Also have to make sure where you land that you can get back out. True with the gyro too.

With a gyro you you can pull power right at midfield on downwind or almost anywhere within glide distance of the airstrip and do a great landing without any pattern setup assuming safe to do so at the location landing. This is what makes the gyro safer too IMO. In the SC with 912 engine, can add power quickly enough to save most landings if something isn’t going right. Have very little if any forward motion when landing my Vortex. With practice over time it gets easier to judge the approach to land at specific spots too. I usually pick a spot and try to land right on it. I’m pretty sure I can beat any landing spot contest with fixed wing plane now.

Dave

 

[Vance]

Thank you for your input Dave.

In the last spot landing contest I won touchdown was at two feet.

Carrier landing (minus zero) power on.

Mentone was tougher with power off and I had nothing to fly.

At the Cub Fly In they had a new rule that it had to be a fixed wing for the bomb drop and the spot landing contest.

A burst of power can also be used to go around and I recommend that if the setup to land isn't going well.

 

[eddie]

While teaching myself to land my RAF after coming home with 15 hrs of dual under my belt I found it was easier to do

2 landings then leave the pattern for a couple of minutes and think about what I was doing ,I also guite trying to land at

a certain spot,I found that by not trying to do 2 things at the same time it was faster to learn landings and then I concentrated

of the exact spot landings.

Now after 800 hrs of flying I can come in to land at different heights and angles to land and get set for touchdown in the last

50 ft or so. Just stay with it and after a while you will realize what fun a gyro is to fly.