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  • #16
    Quick way to find out. Level flight advance the throttle and see what the pitch response is. When the CLT thing blossomed out in the PRA, my wife was the editor of the PRA magazine. We were pulsed by the then President and asked if we were going to print Ken's article. We hadn't seen it. When we got our hands on it we did have it printed only to have the PRA board complain. Subsequent discussion with Ken found that he was happy flying a gyro that didn't have the CLT. My 90hp Benson certainly did not have CLT and in the days when you could not get dual, both my wife and I soloed the ship with no PIO problems.
    Little Nellie had fuel tanks below the seat as we'll as the rocket pods. Ken personally told me that the thrust line was above the c.g.

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    • #17
      Force diagram from Bensen manual. Notice relationship of propeller thrust line to CG.
      Click image for larger version

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      • #18
        Well that certainly is a force diagram. Not sure what it means for the various builder configurations that were found on Bensons. I'm quite sure it doesn't apply to all configs. My Benson had a larger diameter prop courtesy of Ken Brock and the engine was raised slightly to provide clearance. I also had a metal fuel tank capable of 6 gal of fuel mounted below the seat (about 40# below the seat) and my propellor thrust line went about thru my shirt pockets.

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        • #19
          Another very nice high resolution picture. Not Little Nelly but very similar.
          https://static.independent.co.uk/s3f...-wallis-PA.jpg


          By the way Stuart, I understand Chuck to the effect that Bensen, who was a pro, designed his gyrocopter to be CLT and that all the modifications, e.g. by Ken Brock, ultimately led to the now well known problems and tragic events.
          Last edited by kolibri282; 07-18-2017, 09:18 AM.
          Cheers,

          Juergen

          ..Il semble que la perfection soit atteinte..
          ....non quand il n'y a plus rien à ajouter,...
          ...mais quand il n'y a plus rien à retrancher...
          - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry -

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          • #20
            Rotor mast looks round, not square/rectangular. Great expression on 'ol Ken's face !

            Regarding that force diagram; the ACTUAL thrustline could be anywhere, but it is represented as the RESULTANT or EQUIVALENT through the CG.

            Brian

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            • #21
              Originally posted by kolibri282 View Post
              Another very nice high resolution picture. Not Little Nelly but very similar.
              https://static.independent.co.uk/s3f...-wallis-PA.jpg


              By the way Stuart, I understand Chuck to the effect that Bensen, who was a pro, designed his gyrocopter to be CLT and that all the modifications, e.g. by Ken Brock, ultimately led to the now well known problems and tragic events.
              When I worked for the FAA in Oklahoma City 30 years ago, I went through EVERY gyro accident report in their library and copied them all down. Bensen style gyros were porpoising out of the sky mostly without Brock mods. Brock mods improved the VCG by moving the fuel and it's container up. Brock's joystick was a vast improvement (for beginners) over the simpler "pump handle". It's not fair to disparage the deceased.
              Tom Milton, PRA Director, Need a DAR, Seat tank, Prerotator, Rotor Brake, or Rotor Tach?
              Have Airworthiness Certification questions?
              gyroplanes@aol.com or
              Visit www.calumetair.com

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              • #22
                It's not fair to disparage the deceased
                This can never be the intent of a technical discussion, Tom. If someone made whatever mistake in a design, this has to be stated clearly so that others will not get hurt making the same mistake and to make that very clear I can not judge whether or not Brock's design had any flaws. As I said in my post I just understood Chucks comment to that effect.
                It would also be quite interesting to know how many of the aircraft involved in accidents were unmodified Bensens and how many of them had any significant modification, like the larger propellers which Chuck has mentioned.
                Last edited by kolibri282; 07-20-2017, 10:35 PM.
                Cheers,

                Juergen

                ..Il semble que la perfection soit atteinte..
                ....non quand il n'y a plus rien à ajouter,...
                ...mais quand il n'y a plus rien à retrancher...
                - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry -

                Comment


                • #23
                  Ken flying G-AXAS. In the text it is explained that he had mounted infra-red cameras to help in the search for a missing person. I think the cameras are visible in the lower front part of the aircraft.
                  http://snappa.press.net/#!/assets/06...feedId=mystery

                  Cheers,

                  Juergen

                  ..Il semble que la perfection soit atteinte..
                  ....non quand il n'y a plus rien à ajouter,...
                  ...mais quand il n'y a plus rien à retrancher...
                  - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry -

                  Comment

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