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ASRA new safety directive for TAG gyroplane.

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  • #46
    Ejection out the end cap is almost impossible to do other than through the rotating forces of the spinning blade.
    Perhaps Jazzenjohn, but still possible, though not probable, as I mused a couple of days ago:

    Since the entire rotor assembly detached, and (given its condition) apparently fell rather gently into the water,
    I'm now more inclined to believe that the balance rod probably was slung out in flight.
    __________
    btw, yesterday's fatal gyro crash in Queensland doesn't seem to be a TAG.
    The deceased's FB profile has a video of himself flying some other brand (screenshot below).
    He seemed a very well liked and respected man; my condolences to his family and friends.


    Click image for larger version  Name:	Scott Sargood's gyro.png Views:	1 Size:	121.4 KB ID:	1143634







    FROM 11 APRIL 2019 _______________

    The Aussies seem to be using their gyros for far more hours under much more difficult conditions than me and most people I know.
    That is why I believe we need to pay particular attention to any problems they have.
    Jazzenjohn, many ranchers there use the Sport Copter M912 (and soon the M2) to muster cattle.
    They fly 'em hard, with no problems, but those machines are built for rugged duty.



    ___________
    I like Thomas Jefferson's categories for how to read the newspapers, and find them helpful in daily life.
    Thus, my earlier posts on the intended meaning of the ASRA SD.


    Truths, Probabilities, Possibilities, Lies
    PP - ASEL complex (C172RG, Piper 180, C206, RV-7A), SP - Gyro (Calidus, RAF, Sport Copter II, M912), soloed in gliders

    "
    When an honest but mistaken man learns of his error, he either ceases to be mistaken -- or he ceases to be honest."

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    • #47
      Nice photoshop work Jason.

      It seems unrelated to the topic of this thread.
      Regards, Vance Breese Gyroplane CFI http://www.breeseaircraft.com/

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Jazzenjohn View Post
        <There are many ways the end cap and balance rod could have been lost that are not the primary reason for the accident but only one way the main plates have failed which has not yet been determined.>
        <The balance rod and end cap could have been ejected due to impact, vs. in the air.>

        I see this as a very nearly zero probability. A claim like this should include some reasonable scenario or evidence to even propose it as a possibility. If there were a catastophically damaged blade and the weight came out of the shattered blade, then it would be likely. I haven't seen any pics from the first accident, but the second shows what can only be a slung weight. Ejection out the end cap is almost impossible to do other than through the rotating forces of the spinning blade.
        The possibility is just simply the rod and end cap is missing and no-one knows when it occurred. When it comes to life and death you do not need any more evidence than that to issue a warning that it is missing and that it being slung from the blade might be a reason why. How could you not warn if that is what you have found, even if you think that it is unlikely scenario.

        There are many reasons for the missing end cap and rod, here just some:
        The missing rod was only found after the wreckage was released back to the owners and it seems to me that it was discovered when the blade had already been cut, which is not ideal.
        The end cap could have been damaged during retrieval, moving them around from shed to shed etc. It wasn't the NTSB it was a couple of local coppers and tow truck operator that did the retrieval.
        The blade tip could have impacted the ground first, knocking the cap off then the rod fell out when being retrieved.
        The blade tip could have impacted the gyro and knocked the end cap off without serious damage to the blade itself.
        The violent flapping after the rotor separating in flight might resulted in in end cap failure and slinging of rod.

        Also the logic doesn't quite work either, if one blade is grossly imbalanced compared to the other as suggested then there would be likely a lot of damage to the blade and hub bar as it rips itself apart. It did after all manage to rip the mast off which suggests to me a very violent event but the blades seem OK. It would make more sense if the rotor is mostly intact for it to have separated quickly and fluttered away.

        The metallurgical testing is the best chance to work out what when wrong. If they don't find any evidence of fatigue or stress cracking and conclude that it was an near instantaneous separation then the blade imbalance theory has more weight if not then it is most likely the mast plates.

        Not sure why people need to have a conclusion without first having the critical information at hand.

        Jordan

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        • #49

          If my math is correct, A 27.5' blade having the weight at 13.75' from the center and presuming the weight was 10 pounds, (admittedly, several critical assumptions) the force acting on the weight would be about 5500 pounds at 340 RRPM. I'm fairly sure the blades could get much higher RRPM than that in a tight turn or pullout from a dive. 400 RRPM brings it up to 7500 pounds. 13' and 15 pounds brings it up to 10,600 pounds at 400 RRPM. The Aussies seem to be using their gyros for far more hours under much more difficult conditions than me and most people I know. That is why I believe we need to pay particular attention to any problems they have.
          "Nothing screams poor workmanship like wrinkles in the duct tape!"
          All opinions are my own, I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. Feel free to correct me if I am.
          PRA# 40294

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Jazzenjohn View Post
            ...
            The Aussies seem to be using their gyros for far more hours under much more difficult conditions than me and most people I know. That is why I believe we need to pay particular attention to any problems they have.
            Interesting since as best as I know one gyro had less than 50 hours and the other about 200 hours

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            • #51
              Fara, my comment was in general and about not only this accident, but also on the other issues like the hub bar problems that have cropped up there over the last few years. I think there is a tendency for them to do more rough field flying than we do. That is just an impression based on some reading on this and the ASRA forum. Do you think that is a wrong belief?
              "Nothing screams poor workmanship like wrinkles in the duct tape!"
              All opinions are my own, I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. Feel free to correct me if I am.
              PRA# 40294

              Comment


              • #52
                I only flew off airport or on grass with my Sportcopter. Didn’t like to land on pavement. Landed up hill once on a farm in Vermont, and turned out it was frozen grass so slid down the hill... Didn’t like that.

                Also when landing up hill the site picture is different so ended up landing too close to the cow fence. That was interesting landing, but luckily landed with no forward speed. Had a lot of cars pull over to watch.

                Landed in a couple of quarry’s, but have to watch for poles and wires. Landed on dirt bike trail. Landed on pasture along the coast of Maine. Only problem I ever encountered was listening to Barry to adjust pitch on prop too much at one time, and couldn’t climb out on takeoff so had to set it down.

                Flying Sportcopter M912 is a blast!

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