ELA 10 Eclipse - N507EA - New Mexico

Steve_UK

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I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
Todays FAA ASIAS tell us - GYROCOPTER EXPERIENCED ENGINE FAILURE AND LANDED ON A ROAD, RIO RANCHO NM


in theory it has a 914



The same gyro appears on an earlier ASIAS listing for March 2017

Belen airfield, New Mexico - N507EA - ELA 10 Eclipse - The FAA ASIAS reports "N507EA EXPERIMENTAL ECLIPSE 10 ROTORCRAFT, ON LANDING, TIPPED OVER, BELEN, NM"
 
I found out that the pilot ran out of fuel.
There is no sight gauge for the fuel tank in ELA Eclipse for pre-flight so he relied on the fuel gauge and sensors.
Unfortunately the fuel sensors were moved by a repairman and were not reading right. The repairman had repaired leaking composite fuel tanks. They said it leaked because of using Ethanol 10 (E10) gas, which Rotax allows but the rest of the fuel system has to be able to handle it also. This one does not. The repairman told the owner there are 10 gallons in the tank when there were five.
I would advise all ELA owners with composite fuel tanks to be careful using car gas in their gyroplanes. We learned this lesson the hard way in 2007 when E10 gas was introduced and converted all our aircraft to Aluminum tanks at that time from composite. Certain vinyl ester resins resist ethanol but they are not ethanol proof. In time, they will all leak. That time may be years. There should be an advisory to not use car gas in the US on ELA gyroplanes with composite fuel tanks. Even if it does not leak, it goes into your carb and your engine starts having some issues and then you find nice gooky resin crap inside the engine and then you have to figure out what chemical to use to clean it without hurting the engine. Been there and done that. The best thing to do is first physically clean the induction as much as you can carefully and then use $3 bottle of "Chemtool" from Autozone. Mix it in gas per instructions and run the engine one hour and drain any fuel remaining and put good clean fuel in. At least that is what we found.
 
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There is no fuel level sight gage in many gyroplanes and in my opinion a dip stick should be used.

In my opinion part of any good preflight is to determine the amount of fuel available and estimate hours of flight.

I feel doing that with a fuel gage is a bad idea.

The FAA requires a 20 minute reserve for rotor craft.


FAR 91.191(b) No person may begin a flight in a rotorcraft under VFR conditions unless (considering wind and forecast weather conditions) there is enough fuel to fly to the first point of intended landing and, assuming normal cruising speed, to fly after that for at least 20 minutes.

I feel a flight timer is important on every flight.

In my opinion in many areas of the country 20 minutes fuel reserve is not enough and I land with an hour of fuel on board.

If the fog comes in on the California Coast where I fly it can shut down all the coastal airports and Taft (L17); the nearest inland airport to me is 52 nautical miles from Santa Maria (SMX) and may be further if I was aiming for one of the other coastal airports.

An unexpected wind can easily double the time it takes to get to my planned destination.

I will not take a student flying until he has determined how much flight time we have based on the available fuel on board and has compared it to our proposed mission.

I have heard that the number one reason for aviation engines to go quiet in flight is fuel exhaustion.

Some people will say that an engine out in a gyroplane is no big deal and in my opinion they are simply wrong. I feel any unplanned landing in any aircraft is a high risk operation.
 
No doubt Vance. I use minimum 30 minutes in the day and 45 in the evenings or if I know airports are farther apart.
Any engine out IMO is a toss up to chance in any aircraft unless you simply keep flying right around the same area.
Yes I agree a stick gauge should have been used but then the manufacturer should have provided it for their own machine without a sight gauge I think.
My ex-partner Larry proudly claims I don't know how many engine outs. May be a dozen. I was of the opinion that I wouldn't be so proud of them since most of them were from neglect or non-maintenance or changing from stock to after market items. Two were due to running out of fuel. Those I would definitely be ashamed of since they were with a passenger as well. I guess people think differently about things.
I have had a few engine outs (may be 5 total). Most of them in engine conversions of car engines. One was on a 582 assembled incorrectly at the factory.
 
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fara;n1131736 said:
No doubt Vance. I use minimum 30 minutes in the day and 45 in the evenings or if I know airports are farther apart.
Any engine out IMO is a toss up to chance in any aircraft unless you simply keep flying right around the same area.
Yes I agree a stick gauge should have been used but then the manufacturer should have provided it for their own machine without a sight gauge I think.

Buying a wooden dowel and cutting some marks into it is pretty straight forward Abid.

It doesn't need to be fancy to work well.
 
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The RAF fuel tank is very irregular in shape so a calibarated site gauge is a requirement here is what my gauge looks like.
I drained the tank and then poured in one gallon at a time.
 

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In addition to an electronic fuel gauge the ELA G7, G8 models have translucent portions to the tank for checking fuel level, it’s visible to the pilot in-flight through a hole in the front seat back. Pictures are taken from the construction thread for the G8 we built here in Texas, three years in service now with no tank issues.
 

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I agree with Vance. If you can't look in the tank and see the fuel, use a fuel stick. Wood is a wonderful choice, since it floats, should you drop it. --Of course if it is long enough, even dropping it will not be a problem. Calibration is easy. Start with an empty tank. Put 5 gallons in and see where it ends up on the stick. Add two gallons, and so on.
 
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On my RAF Sparrowhawk, the fuel tanks are translucent and I can easily see the fuel level if I put a spotlight against the side. In order to see the fuel level in flight, I velcroed a flat, bright 12 volt LED light under each tank and wired them to a switch on the panel. I couldn't bring myself to trust the fuel gauge, but I trust my eyeballs.

Eric
 

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Eric S;n1131871 said:
On my RAF Sparrowhawk, the fuel tanks are translucent and I can easily see the fuel level if I put a spotlight against the side. In order to see the fuel level in flight, I velcroed a flat, bright 12 volt LED light under each tank and wired them to a switch on the panel. I couldn't bring myself to trust the fuel gauge, but I trust my eyeballs.

Eric

Are those tanks Ethanol safe?
 
Yes brent they are alcohol safe if they are the plastic ones,I think that RAF used fiberglass tanks at one time I could be wrong.

I have used alcohol in my RAF tank for more than six years and there no signs of discoloration,or hardening from the auto fuel.

I started using aviation fuel but it was really hard on my Subaru engine,and the auto fuel even with alcohol is better for it,one

of the benefits is that alcohol is an octane booster which my turbocharged engine likes.
 
I believe on the back seat of the the ELA-10, there is a translucent window to view the fuel level.
 
I found out that the pilot ran out of fuel.
There is no sight gauge for the fuel tank in ELA Eclipse for pre-flight so he relied on the fuel gauge and sensors.
Unfortunately the fuel sensors were moved by a repairman and were not reading right. The repairman had repaired leaking composite fuel tanks. They said it leaked because of using Ethanol 10 (E10) gas, which Rotax allows but the rest of the fuel system has to be able to handle it also. This one does not. The repairman told the owner there are 10 gallons in the tank when there were five.
I would advise all ELA owners with composite fuel tanks to be careful using car gas in their gyroplanes. We learned this lesson the hard way in 2007 when E10 gas was introduced and converted all our aircraft to Aluminum tanks at that time from composite. Certain vinyl ester resins resist ethanol but they are not ethanol proof. In time, they will all leak. That time may be years. There should be an advisory to not use car gas in the US on ELA gyroplanes with composite fuel tanks. Even if it does not leak, it goes into your carb and your engine starts having some issues and then you find nice gooky resin crap inside the engine and then you have to figure out what chemical to use to clean it without hurting the engine. Been there and done that. The best thing to do is first physically clean the induction as much as you can carefully and then use $3 bottle of "Chemtool" from Autozone. Mix it in gas per instructions and run the engine one hour and drain any fuel remaining and put good clean fuel in. At least that is what we found.
Unfortunately, I have developed this exact problem on a relatively new ELA Eclipse. Did you replace the sensors? Do you know anyone down there that could help me resolve this problem, I was hoping to fly it home after Benson days.
 
Unfortunately, I have developed this exact problem on a relatively new ELA Eclipse. Did you replace the sensors? Do you know anyone down there that could help me resolve this problem, I was hoping to fly it home after Benson days.
I’ve never used actual fuel gauges in my aircraft……I use them for reference only……alway time my fuel burn….much more accurate.
Ran out of fuel once in my life……never again!😁👍🏻
 
I agree with BarryK, you should never really rely on a fuel gauge anyway. On my gyro, I start worrying about refuelling after about 2.5 hours, even though I know I can cruise for well over three on a full tank. And if you can fly in an open gyro for over three straight hours without stopping, you have more stamina than I do!
 
Unfortunately, I have developed this exact problem on a relatively new ELA Eclipse. Did you replace the sensors? Do you know anyone down there that could help me resolve this problem, I was hoping to fly it home after Benson days.

Wasn't me. It was someone else. You should contact ELA for support and solution. Believe they developed plastic tanks to solve the issue and got away from composite tanks
 
I’ve never used actual fuel gauges in my aircraft……I use them for reference only……alway time my fuel burn….much more accurate.
Ran out of fuel once in my life……never again!😁👍🏻
What of the other gauges in your aircraft?
Do you trust your engine tachometer?
Voltage readings?
EGT gauge, if any?
Rotor tachometer?
Oil pressure?
My point is: if a gauge/system is not accurate, fix it ! Otherwise, why bother having any monitoring equipment.
 
What of the other gauges in your aircraft?
Do you trust your engine tachometer?
Voltage readings?
EGT gauge, if any?
Rotor tachometer?
Oil pressure?
My point is: if a gauge/system is not accurate, fix it ! Otherwise, why bother having any monitoring equipment.
once again…..gauges are for reference……fuel burn is consistent at power settings..(gallons per hour or pounds per hour) I’ll time fuel burn anytime over a float or sender instrument.
 
The Kermit Aviomania Gyro that is at the Lone Star Rotorcraft Club in Anuahac, Texas is grounded due to ethanol causing the fuel tank to leak. A Sparrowhawk at Peach State Rotorcraft Club in Cedartown, Georgia had the same failure caused by ethanol. Anyone using those composite tanks should never use fuel with ethanol. Ethanol free Mogas can be found using this site in the USA: https://www.pure-gas.org/
 
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Timing the fuel burn is certainly better than relying on an electronic guage. Timing alone doesn't take account of possible fuel leaks, however, so a sight guage or translucent tank is better still.

In the sailboats I play with these days, it's an article of faith that fuel gauges don't live long. Use a dipstick or sight tube, time the burn AND check the bilge frequently for fuel leaks.
 
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