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Sport Copter II - N767LW - California

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Kolibri View Post
    That's the event in a nutshell. Good synopsis, Vance.

    Regards, Kolibri[/COLOR]
    I did not write that in relation to this mishap.

    I suspect that quote is from a different thread if I even wrote it.

    In my opinion it is missing several components that formed the accident chain.
    Regards, Vance Breese Gyroplane CFI http://www.breeseaircraft.com/

    Comment


    • #32
      I feel the flap is caused by too little rotor rpm with too much back stick combined with too much forward speed.
      I did not write that in relation to this mishap.

      I suspect that quote is from a different thread if I even wrote it.
      Then re-read your post #22 in this thread, on page 2:

      The Sport Copter II has a lot of power and the same flap would progress very quickly as the nose comes up after the throttle is advanced. There is a limit to how fast the heavy Sport Rotor blades can be accelerated.

      It is a very common error and I try to get my clients to flap the blades at least once so they get a feel for it and know what to do.

      In my opinion the best action is to get the cyclic all the way forward, reduce the power and slow down using the brakes. I feel the flap is caused by too little rotor rpm with too much back stick combined with too much forward speed.

      Some instructors teach to just reduce the power when the onset of flap is felt as a pulsing in the cyclic.

      Given the consequences of blade flap I want to be as aggressive as practical in addressing the cause.


      02-02-2018, 04:46 PM
      https://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/ro...16#post1129816
      ____________
      That's the event in a nutshell. Good synopsis, Vance.
      In my opinion it is missing several components that formed the accident chain.
      Of course it is missing some components. That's why I wrote "in a nutshell".
      It's a metaphor for a simplistic though essentially accurate statement.
      Geez.


      PP - ASEL complex (Piper 180, C206, RV-7A), SP - Gyro (Calidus, RAF, SC2), soloed in gliders; checkride soon

      Wasn't happy with my RAF's pitch instability, so I installed a Boyer H-Stab to my great satisfaction!

      "
      When an honest but mistaken man learns of his error, he either ceases to be mistaken -- or he ceases to be honest."

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Kolibri View Post

        Then re-read your post #22 in this thread, on page 2:



        ____________


        Of course it is missing some components. That's why I wrote "in a nutshell".
        It's a metaphor for a simplistic though essentially accurate statement.
        Geez.

        I stand corrected.

        In my opinion what I wrote in not this event in a "nutshell" and was not intended to by a synopsis of this event.

        I feel you may have found a way to avoid learning much from this event.
        Regards, Vance Breese Gyroplane CFI http://www.breeseaircraft.com/

        Comment


        • #34
          Kolibri in a nut shell is a simple explanation,not necessary an accurate one,

          as are most of your explanations, not necessarily accurate ones.
          Best Regards,
          Eddie Sigman,Polvadera,nm
          (575) 835-4921

          Comment


          • #35
            The pilot of this SCII had:
            too little rotor rpm
            with too much back stick
            combined with too much forward speed

            I'll stand by my "in a nutshell" characterization, even if Vance says that he didn't mean it that way.
            That'll teach me to pay him a passing compliment, lol.

            PP - ASEL complex (Piper 180, C206, RV-7A), SP - Gyro (Calidus, RAF, SC2), soloed in gliders; checkride soon

            Wasn't happy with my RAF's pitch instability, so I installed a Boyer H-Stab to my great satisfaction!

            "
            When an honest but mistaken man learns of his error, he either ceases to be mistaken -- or he ceases to be honest."

            Comment


            • #36
              I have heard he had 180 rotor rpm when he started his takeoff roll.

              I see people apply full back stick and full throttle at 180 rotor rpm all the time and it usually works out fine.

              I tell my clients flying The Predator they can go to full back stick at 120 rotor rpm and full power at 180 rotor rpm in stronger winds and gusts than Van Nuys had that day. I caution them that they may be rushing the blades and be prepared to manage blade divergence with full forward cyclic and engine to idle.

              The Predator does not accelerate as fast as the Sport Copter II and the nose will not come up as fast or as far.

              The blades are heavier on the Sport Copter II and may not accelerate as fast.

              In my opinion pressure to get off quickly, gusting conditions and inexperience exacerbated the above challenges and led to a mishap.

              Having flown with him I can say with confidence; he is a better, more experience pilot than I will ever be. He has a better feel for the aircraft than I do.

              I have not flown a Sport Copter II and I was not in the aircraft when the event occurred so this is all just conjecture.

              I feel the world is not black and white and procedures may need to be adjusted to address the circumstances.

              I try to teach that a gyroplane is best flown by observing what is going on and addressing it rather than specific procedures.

              I teach to approach the limits slowly and with caution.
              Regards, Vance Breese Gyroplane CFI http://www.breeseaircraft.com/

              Comment


              • #37
                Update - the NTSB Final report is now up - their Analysis states, Analysis



                According to the pilot of the experimental amateur-built gyroplane, during the takeoff roll on runway 34 in gusting wind conditions, the pilot did not allow the rotor rpm to adequately increase. He advanced the throttle and the nose pitched up. The gyroplane exited the left side of the runway and the rotor blades struck the propeller.

                The gyroplane sustained substantial damage to the vertical stabilizer.

                The METAR at the airport reported that about the time of the accident, the wind was from 350 at 17kts gusting to 22kts.

                The pilot reported that this accident could have been prevented if he had confirmed the proper rotor rpm.

                The pilot reported that there were no preaccident mechanical malfunctions or failures with the gyroplane that would have precluded normal operation.

                Probable Causeand Findings

                The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accidentto be:


                The pilot's decision to takeoff in gusting wind conditions with insufficient rotor rpm.





                more here


                https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...=HTML&IType=CA



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