Vance and Kolibri Argument Thread

Well put, Vance. Everybody can benefit from open-minded discussion, but there is little benefit to be had from a self-appointed watchdog over CFIs who himself didn't know how to do simple vector arithmetic for lift and drag, had a pattern of wholly improper usage of technical vocabulary, misunderstood the purpose and meaning of the H-V diagram, and so far as is apparent, still doesn't really grasp what ground effect is and does. I attempted to deal "politely" with him for a long time, but he has passed my threshold for suffering such things gladly, and I'm done dealing with him now.
 
Sorry Vance, but you've still glossed over the mens rea of a troll: "with the intent of provoking readers"
I've no such intent. If I did, I'd be doing a much better job at it.
For example, I could comment on your FB posts, but don't.


Condemning a description of a landing because he doesn't understand it is typical of Kolibri's inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages.
Oh, I understood it. I simply disagreed that it was preferred or safe technique in the winds/gusts/rotors present.
Please note that not a single gyro CFI publicly recommended that kind of landing.

There's a difference between purposely inflaming someone, and another becoming inflamed.
I suspect that you enjoy your BMoC status, so any criticism (especially from me) will be unwelcome.

Such critics are not ipso facto trolls.


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His fantasy that he has proved ground effect produces lift in a gyroplane rotor is typical of his lack of understanding of how a rotor works and how a gyroplane flies.

and so far as is apparent, still doesn't really grasp what ground effect is and does
Ah, so a gyroplane flying in ground effect (i.e., within rotor span of a boundary, in this case the ground) has the effect of reducing induced drag,
but (as with fixed-wings) simultaneously not the effect of increasing air pressure underneath the rotor?

Really? You both are actually going to stick with that?
Well, the burden of proof is on you. Good luck finding corroborating evidence that a hard boundary works that way.

Gyroplanes fly differently in some respects, but they did not reinvent or overturn basic aeronautical facts.



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didn't know how to do simple vector arithmetic for lift and drag
WaspAir is speaking of my error in trying to eliminate rotor drag from the effect of preventing buntovers in HTL gyros.
However, since gyro L/D is about 4/1, even while in partial error I was still 4x closer to the truth on that than Vance was who had eliminated lift and attributed it solely to rotor drag.
Instead of acknowledging where I was mostly on the right track, you both crowed at my error (while totally ignoring Vance's larger one).
Such was an example of what I meant by my later accusation of lack of intellectual honesty by some here.

It's as if I proclaimed "Happy 2019!" and one of the usual suspects replied that there are other calenders,
and furthermore that the Gregorian calender has a built-in error because of __________.



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Folks, I've been on this forum for over 4 years now, and Vance and I have locked horns many times.
Notice how -- not once -- has he ever admitted that I was right about anything, or even that I had a valid point along the way.

It is simply impossible for a 200+ hour/year pilot (FW and gyro) to be so continuously wrong about everything . . . and yet remain uncrashed.
After a while, the "low-time pilot" sneer just doesn't hold up any longer, especially when I've been since last summer under the regular CFI tutelage of
probably the most capable gyro pilot in the country. In fact, I flew with him just yesterday in a different gyro type and he complimented my flying.

All I ask is to be treated even-handedly. Educate me when I'm wrong. Concede the point when I am right.
This is what I expect of CFIs, because it's professional.

Regards,
Kolibri
 
I'll be tell ya what.
I love this, not for the sake of the argument, but the fact that my vocabulary gains two or more words per post I read.
Thanks Guys
 
gyrojake, you're welcome, glad to contribute. A little Latin here and there is good to know.
 
His fantasy that he has proved ground effect produces lift in a gyroplane rotor is typical of his lack of understanding of how a rotor works and how a gyroplane flies. In my opinion it is this misunderstanding that is a part of what has led to him recommend a dangerous landing scheme.
Vance, I never claimed to have "proved" my assertion, however I did provide credible evidence for it in an aerodynamic paper.
Also, see today's post with more evidence.

Regards,
Kolibri
 
I've been trying to figure out how to put Kolibri on ignore since shortly after I joined this forum. As a long-time player of MMORPGs, I can spot a Troll a mile off. Can someone please explain how I put him on ignore?
 
...and this is why I don't read this forum anymore. I decided to look in because I got a PM asking about Rotors Over The Rockies.

The Rotary Wing Forum now looks better, and runs better, but there are other aviation forums with standards of conduct and moderators who enforce them. I prefer that environment. Robust discussion is fine, but the signal-to-noise ratio here is intolerable. If this were my forum, you guys would sit in time-out till you could stop the sniping.

Todd, good luck. I hope there are enough gyro enthusiasts who enjoy this style of interaction enough to keep this thing afloat.
 
Pretty shallow excuse, IMHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I hear you Paul .....If I was not trying to help out a good friend in getting exposure to the NthAmerican market ( & mediate the :poop:-🐦's / 🤡 s who delight in drama with so much negativity!) I would stay away also!
....BUT I've been contributing for nine years now & still see value in the archive material & Todd's efforts with the upgrade ...perhaps some of the enjoyable poster's will return!
There are still a few faithful's here who I respect & continue to learn from!
 
I've been trying to figure out how to put Kolibri on ignore
JJ Campbell, I'm happy to help with your evasion of uncomfortable facts.
<------- Click on "Kolibri" beneath my avatar. Then Click the "Ignore" button.
Enjoy your Kumbaya version of the forum, in which nobody builds faulty gyros.
Good luck with your Calidus, a real Mercedes-Benz of the sky. ;)


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Robust discussion is fine, but the signal-to-noise ratio here is intolerable.
Paul, I post on the average <1 post/day, and only in a few areas.
My posts/total forum daily posts is far less than 1%.
To avoid 99+% of available posts because of my <1% is, well, silly.
Ignore whom you don't like. Instructions above.


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& mediate the :poop:-🐦's / 🤡 s who delight in drama with so much negativity!
Actually, Chris, I'm quite a positive person.
However, my ire is revealed with flimsy, low-time, poorly made gyros which can bite their owners (sometimes fatally).
Of course, apologists for such aircraft will heckle any such criticism as "negativity".
(Callin' 'em like I see 'em. Notice how I never say anything bad about the safer brands, such as Magni?)
 
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Try your fatuous argument again after considering the following article!


"people kill gyros ...rather than gyro's kill people"!

Magni's have wonderful reputation & quality ...... but still high accident rate in South Africa! (HUMAN FACTORS!!!) :eek:

WOW .... you argue up a storm all over this forum "like a girl" ....slapping down a last word everywhere you can ....your " <1 post/day" claim is truly laughable!

:ROFLMAO:
 
Obviously these endless arguments have hurt the forum and things have gotten out of hand.

The forum is a great spot for spirited discussion and even arguments. That said, it is expected that your discussions, arguments or disagreements remain civil. If for any reason you find it necessary to attack another member of this forum, you can expect to be banned from this forum.

I am encouraging everyone to help me in policing the forum and let me know when a discussion has crossed the line.
 
Thank you for stepping up for that duty, Todd. The new format is much better. Thank you for that, too.
Let's rehabilitate this thing ! :)
Brian
 
Chris, I read that article about human factors causing gyro crashes, which concluded with:
Gyros do not mysteriously explode or fall apart in mid-air, they do not roll over on landing just because they want to,
nor do they inadvertently fly into the ground.
Some gyros have done exactly those things, and some people here seem to reflexively defend such as not related to design, materials, or workmanship.

your " <1 post/day" claim is truly laughable!
I joined on 17 Oct 2014, which was 1683 days ago, and I've since posted 1504 times (including this one).
1504 / 1683 = 0.894 posts/day. Thus, I'll stand by my:
"I post on the average <1 post/day, and only in a few areas."
 
You use "averages" to defend your post-count claim ....yet discount the average most common "cause-in aviation accidents" ... being HUMAN FACTORS ...to make YOUR point! ...Sorry can't have it both ways! ( hmmm where did I hear THAT before!) :ROFLMAO:
 
yet discount the average most common "cause-in aviation accidents" ... being HUMAN FACTORS ...to make YOUR point! ...Sorry can't have it both ways!
As far as I know, those recent TAG crashes were not caused by human factors, thus your referenced article was moot.
 
.....& until the ASRA investigation reports are PUBLISHED ...YOU DO NOT KNOW ...the FULL FACTS! ...so "pull-in-yer-skull-mate" ...& prove me wrong you DO NOT need to be a "fish-wife" ...always having a final word!
 
Fine, I'll wait until the ASRA report. Will you?
 
YEP !
 
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