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Vance and Kolibri Argument Thread

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  • #16
    Eddie,
    I have to go w/Vance on this one. Until now, most here have 'tolerated' the verbal pissing match and as annoying as it has become, they remain silent.
    No matter what forum you attend, there will always be a troll who argues for the sake of attention. I have to trust that most intelligent readers can figure that out rather quickly. Don't let that drive you away. Your input
    here is valued and helpful. Like the Dr. advised the constipated man, 'this too shall pass'.....stick around.
    Mark
    __________________

    Risk lurks in the edges of marginality.. ..There are penalties to be paid for pushing the envelope..
    The speed in which a woman says "nothing" when asked "What's wrong?" is inversely proportional to the severity of the storm that's coming.
    No tyrant, foreign or domestic, should be permitted to die a natural death.

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    • #17
      Adios, Eddie.
      I'm guessing there are no mirrors in your house as you have an 'inner Kolibri', too.

      Comment


      • #18
        I don't argue for argument's sake. I don't care one whit for the "attention".
        A "troll" would actually troll through many more threads to make antagonistic comments.

        But when one CFI describes a risky and inadvisable landing technique in gusting/variable winds with ground rotors,
        and another CFI is ignorant of the fact that ground effect actually produces additional lift . . . I have to speak up.

        If some of you want a CFIs-are-always-right cult, then continue to castigate anybody who points out stubborn facts.

        I certainly don't claim to always be right, but when I am it's intellectually honest for others to concede the matter.


        _____
        and nothing I value from Kolibri.
        Vance, without my dogged posts finding my way to the truth on the matter, you'd still be believing/teaching that rotor drag is what prevents a high thrustline gyro from bunting over.

        _____
        eddie, it was never my intention to run you off this forum.
        I think you will recall that when I am dealt with politely, I respond in kind.
        I am now trying to respond politely regardless of how others treat me here.
        Why don't you and I bury the hatchet, and start over afresh for 2019?

        Regards,
        Kolibri

        PP - ASEL complex (C172RG, Piper 180, C206, RV-7A), SP - Gyro (Calidus, RAF, SC2), soloed in gliders

        "
        When an honest but mistaken man learns of his error, he either ceases to be mistaken -- or he ceases to be honest."

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Kolibri View Post
          I don't argue for argument's sake. I don't care one whit for the "attention".
          A "troll" would actually troll through many more threads to make antagonistic comments.

          But when one CFI describes a risky and inadvisable landing technique in gusting/variable winds with ground rotors,
          and another CFI is ignorant of the fact that ground effect actually produces additional lift . . . I have to speak up.

          If some of you want a CFIs-are-always-right cult, then continue to castigate anybody who points out stubborn facts.

          I certainly don't claim to always be right, but when I am it's intellectually honest for others to concede the matter.

          _____
          Vance, without my dogged posts finding my way to the truth on the matter, you'd still be believing/teaching that rotor drag is what prevents a high thrustline gyro from bunting over.
          ____
          Regards,
          Kolibri
          According to Wikipedia: In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.

          I feel every part of Kolibri's last post fits the definition of an Internet troll very well.

          Condemning a description of a landing because he doesn't understand it is typical of Kolibri's inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages.

          His fantasy that he has proved ground effect produces lift in a gyroplane rotor is typical of his lack of understanding of how a rotor works and how a gyroplane flies. In my opinion it is this misunderstanding that is a part of what has led to him recommend a dangerous landing scheme.

          In my opinion Kolibri's promise to change when attached to such a post is simply unbelievable.
          Regards, Vance Breese Gyroplane CFI http://www.breeseaircraft.com/

          Comment


          • #20
            Well put, Vance. Everybody can benefit from open-minded discussion, but there is little benefit to be had from a self-appointed watchdog over CFIs who himself didn't know how to do simple vector arithmetic for lift and drag, had a pattern of wholly improper usage of technical vocabulary, misunderstood the purpose and meaning of the H-V diagram, and so far as is apparent, still doesn't really grasp what ground effect is and does. I attempted to deal "politely" with him for a long time, but he has passed my threshold for suffering such things gladly, and I'm done dealing with him now.

            Comment


            • #21
              Sorry Vance, but you've still glossed over the mens rea of a troll: "with the intent of provoking readers"
              I've no such intent. If I did, I'd be doing a much better job at it.
              For example, I could comment on your FB posts, but don't.


              Condemning a description of a landing because he doesn't understand it is typical of Kolibri's inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages.
              Oh, I understood it. I simply disagreed that it was preferred or safe technique in the winds/gusts/rotors present.
              Please note that not a single gyro CFI publicly recommended that kind of landing.

              There's a difference between purposely inflaming someone, and another becoming inflamed.
              I suspect that you enjoy your BMoC status, so any criticism (especially from me) will be unwelcome.

              Such critics are not ipso facto trolls.


              _____________
              His fantasy that he has proved ground effect produces lift in a gyroplane rotor is typical of his lack of understanding of how a rotor works and how a gyroplane flies.
              and so far as is apparent, still doesn't really grasp what ground effect is and does
              Ah, so a gyroplane flying in ground effect (i.e., within rotor span of a boundary, in this case the ground) has the effect of reducing induced drag,
              but (as with fixed-wings) simultaneously not the effect of increasing air pressure underneath the rotor?

              Really? You both are actually going to stick with that?
              Well, the burden of proof is on you. Good luck finding corroborating evidence that a hard boundary works that way.

              Gyroplanes fly differently in some respects, but they did not reinvent or overturn basic aeronautical facts.



              _____________
              didn't know how to do simple vector arithmetic for lift and drag
              WaspAir is speaking of my error in trying to eliminate rotor drag from the effect of preventing buntovers in HTL gyros.
              However, since gyro L/D is about 4/1, even while in partial error I was still 4x closer to the truth on that than Vance was who had eliminated lift and attributed it solely to rotor drag.
              Instead of acknowledging where I was mostly on the right track, you both crowed at my error (while totally ignoring Vance's larger one).
              Such was an example of what I meant by my later accusation of lack of intellectual honesty by some here.

              It's as if I proclaimed "Happy 2019!" and one of the usual suspects replied that there are other calenders,
              and furthermore that the Gregorian calender has a built-in error because of __________.



              _____________
              Folks, I've been on this forum for over 4 years now, and Vance and I have locked horns many times.
              Notice how -- not once -- has he ever admitted that I was right about anything, or even that I had a valid point along the way.

              It is simply impossible for a 200+ hour/year pilot (FW and gyro) to be so continuously wrong about everything . . . and yet remain uncrashed.
              After a while, the "low-time pilot" sneer just doesn't hold up any longer, especially when I've been since last summer under the regular CFI tutelage of
              probably the most capable gyro pilot in the country. In fact, I flew with him just yesterday in a different gyro type and he complimented my flying.

              All I ask is to be treated even-handedly. Educate me when I'm wrong. Concede the point when I am right.
              This is what I expect of CFIs, because it's professional.

              Regards,
              Kolibri

              PP - ASEL complex (C172RG, Piper 180, C206, RV-7A), SP - Gyro (Calidus, RAF, SC2), soloed in gliders

              "
              When an honest but mistaken man learns of his error, he either ceases to be mistaken -- or he ceases to be honest."

              Comment


              • #22
                I'll be tell ya what.
                I love this, not for the sake of the argument, but the fact that my vocabulary gains two or more words per post I read.
                Thanks Guys
                Life,The leading cause of Death

                Live and Learn--OR--Die and be an example

                321.252.7705

                Comment


                • #23
                  gyrojake, you're welcome, glad to contribute. A little Latin here and there is good to know.
                  PP - ASEL complex (C172RG, Piper 180, C206, RV-7A), SP - Gyro (Calidus, RAF, SC2), soloed in gliders

                  "
                  When an honest but mistaken man learns of his error, he either ceases to be mistaken -- or he ceases to be honest."

                  Comment

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