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Misrepresentaion - CORRECTION!!!

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  • #16
    Hi Chris

    Can you clarify the status of new aircraft built in the factory by the factory and shipped here when the owner does not go over to do it? It seems it would end up being Exhibition Experimental. How is that comparatively restrictive category avoided for those who do not go to Australia?

    /Ed

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    • #17
      So the Explorer has a lower empty weight than the other Euro machines at 590 & 600 ?

      What is the max load & how does it compare with others ?
      Happy Flying, Chris S.

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      • #18
        Simple ... to date I build & registered as builder/owner ... fly it for a while & sell a used machine! ....all legit ... just as done with the TX Magni's!

        I cannot compare weights ..... do your own research! I know what my machines weighed on scales ..... I did not have access to other brands "empty" machines to compare on those same scales!

        Simple math 600 + 700 = 1300 MTOW ..... look at the website stats for the others!
        Last edited by GyrOZprey; 02-12-2018, 08:27 AM.
        Chris T.
        3Rs - Rotors rock & rule!

        "Blessed are the flexible for they shall not be bent out of shape." Buck B.

        Time flies if you can but only the slowest.

        PRA# 4212
        EAA# 1126845
        AOPA#08888697

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        • #19
          Wow... Post after Post after Post... Let's look at the elephant in the room.... The AR-1

          Claim: US Manufactured" - Just the Pod... Rotor system - Parlez-vous franšais? Do you "beat your chest" about your French rotor system???
          Almost every Mfg. uses Rotax (not US)
          So if I build a Magni in my garage, is that "US Manufactured"? (Awesome machine BTW)

          The Pod frame... Stainless Steel - Less expensive than 4130 or Titanium. Structural stainless does not appear in aviation except for gyros. Stainless cracks over time with special equipment needed for detection.
          Look at the fuel system with hoses sticking out, multiple points of failure and a sump that is mounted between the frame and ground!! The eye candy looks great, until.... pealing away the cover a bit.
          Time to come clean with your claims about other gyros and take a good look at flag you fly!

          US made Pod and Rotor systems?
          Sport Copter (Another set of awesome machines) & RFD (blade production has moved)
          Lets take the SC-II - 100% made in the US!! ( Do I hear Tarzan??!!!)
          Paul Erb, Sport Pilot Gyro, PRA Chapter 65 Presidente www.centexpra.org

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          • #20
            Originally posted by perbgyro View Post
            Wow... Post after Post after Post... Let's look at the elephant in the room.... The AR-1

            Claim: US Manufactured" - Just the Pod... Rotor system - Parlez-vous franšais? Do you "beat your chest" about your French rotor system???
            Almost every Mfg. uses Rotax (not US)
            So if I build a Magni in my garage, is that "US Manufactured"? (Awesome machine BTW)

            The Pod frame... Stainless Steel - Less expensive than 4130 or Titanium. Structural stainless does not appear in aviation except for gyros. Stainless cracks over time with special equipment needed for detection.
            Look at the fuel system with hoses sticking out, multiple points of failure and a sump that is mounted between the frame and ground!! The eye candy looks great, until.... pealing away the cover a bit.
            Time to come clean with your claims about other gyros and take a good look at flag you fly!

            US made Pod and Rotor systems?
            Sport Copter (Another set of awesome machines) & RFD (blade production has moved)
            Lets take the SC-II - 100% made in the US!! ( Do I hear Tarzan??!!!)
            What are you talking about Paul? I am not understanding your point overall really.
            When you assemble your Magni kit in your garage your manufacturing was mainly done in Italy not the US obviously. You didn't manufacture any part of it. You built it. I don't know what that has to do with the price of coffee.

            FYI: Stainless Steel is not less expensive than 4130. Its more expensive. 4130 has to be treated for rust proofing inside and powder coated outside that is extra labor and that is what can make it the same as Stainless Steel, may be. 4130 is much easier to drill and weld compared to Stainless as well. It does not require back purge during welding and its co-efficient of linear expansion is almost 60% of stainless steel. Done two other aircraft designs in 4130 before in my career so I know quite well the ins and outs of both. There is this thing called engineering. When you use a material you engineer with its capabilities. Stainless steel gyro frame will have to be 12 to 14% heavier than 4130 frame to get the same life and strength. 4130 rusts and requires baroscope inspections inside the tubing because powder coat hides the rust from the inside well. Aluminum corrodes and there are plenty of Aluminum inspection AD's for wing spars and struts in GA. You should ideally never powder coat Stainless steel because that will actually make it start rusting yet some manufacturers do that. You should also weld Stainless with back purge or clear oxygen out of the back side somehow. Yet no big gyro manufactures did that so far. You have to do this properly or its not the right way to weld Stainless structures. Stainless is used in aerospace for sure but you don't know it. But all that said when you are ready to order an AR-1, ask for 4130 frame, we will do it for you for a price. That should satisfy you.
            https://www.makeitfrom.com/compare/A...00-Cr-Mo-Steel

            Of course we use Rotax engine, so does everyone pretty much in production gyroplanes right now. Not about to start using Viking or Yamaha engines. Seen enough to know where not to go.
            We happen to use Averso rotor because its the best one we have found. Rotor system is not the largest cost nor the most complex component in manufacturing a gyroplane. Its however a critical one.

            We actually then make everything else of significance in house with 12 US employees in the shop and a few select local small businesses as our partners for things like seat cushions, CNC, powder coating, metallurgical heat treatments and plating etc., We make all composites, all frame, rotor head, rotor brake, pre-rotator parts, control system parts, cable assemblies, fuel tanks, front nose gear, main landing gear, axle assemblies, disc brake rotors, exhaust system, seat upholstery, wiring harness, windshields, decals. We do welding, composite layup, body work and painting, drawings in SW and design and make sure that even the main Stainless Steel tubing we get for the frame is US manufactured (more expensive than Chinese or Taiwanese manufactured Stainless tubing) and use AN hardware supplied from US manufacturers. Make our own pre-rotator ring gears, shafts and joints even. Use Matco brakes that are US made.

            And yes the sump is mounted at the lowest point like its supposed to be like a gascolator would be at the lowest point on the firewall in an airplane. For crash worthiness you engineer the attachment to the structure such that the attachment bracket bends off and the tank or gascolator can move to the side or up within reason to prevent rupture. Is your point if you crash the crap out of the gyroplane, the sump will break off. Yes possibly so one should get proper training and don't smash it in. Its not like that frame design and landing gear has not fallen straight down from 15 feet without breaking when a student locked up and survived and was able to taxi back with a bent frame and landing gear and busted prop. The Averso rotor had something to do with it I am sure. At what point its the pilot's responsibility?

            No one is 100% US made if they use Rotax engine and analog gauges and pre-rotator components coming from elsewhere. RFD had components like engine, and components from New Zealand in it.
            We have to serve our customers with the best flying machine we can do within a competitive price point. I think we must be doing something right to get 22 orders of tandem gyroplane like AR-1 in last 12 months of time in the US market. There is a package of technical support, parts and machine that goes into a purchase decision.
            Last edited by fara; 02-14-2018, 03:16 PM.

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