Should we spend $13,000 of your money to fix PRA's runway & taxi ways

[All_In]

John, I think the training stuff deserves to have its own thread.

Well until I test it here it's a dream so not sure it will help until I have real data to report and compare to other idea's at that time.
But there will be a thread much sooner than folks expect as long as we keep earning this much money.

However if anyone has better idea about anything please start a thread and I'll try and find it when posted but I still seem to miss many posts here until some bring them back up answering or asking a new questions. The Forum SUCKS finding anything compared to the old one, so I just don't come here as often.

 

[All_In]

Im no longer a PRA member, but I say to spend the money and fix it. As long as the PRA owns the airport, the PRA needs to maintain that airport. 13 grand is not alot of money for fixing a runway in the grand scheme of things

I agree Bro, however we are collecting donations to maintain it as not all members use it.
Only it will take a year or two with donations and we need it fixed sooner or it will just keep costing more money the longer we put it off.

This is more like members giving us permission to loan the money to fix it now and keep asking for donations to pay them back over two years.

Also I really miss you at our fly-ins,, I need a Ron gyro ride fix badly. Not been the same since you started motorcycles.
Wish you would have been their and done that back when I was ALL IN to them. Only play on dunes now and only race the Baja 500 & 1000 once a year and not motocross anymore.

 

[All_In]

Could the PRA buy this forum from it's current operator or owner and then just merge it into the PRA once and for all to resolve dueling forum issues?
Sounds like you have more then enough funds to cast a vote on it!
Just a suggestion since I am not currently a PRA member (full disclosure).

I love this forum and these people. They take the most valuable thing there is, TIME, to help the world be a better place.

They have put up with me and taught me almost everything I know about gyro's in the shortest time possible. Which means I'm almost up to dummy level...

Many people think PRA owns the forum. I get PM's and email before when it was running right to fix their accounts here and now to fix our crappy forum all the time.
I had heard that he offered it to PRA before I was here and they turn him down. What were they thinking if true.
Learning this I offered him for PRA to take it over when the upgrading when so bad, but no joy... so I sent him money personally and had PRA sent him a check for $250.00 to help fix it.

We would be delighted to fix it and maintain it exactly the same as it is now and pay Todd for it. Just let me know how much he needs.

But he's really never done this for money. He's another person who makes the world a better place and does this for the community.
If PRA can help please let us know.

 

[All_In]

If your an ACTIVE PRA member and having trouble voting to repair our runway.

Please vote YES or NO

by email
Need your PRA #
to [email protected].

 

[gyromike]

I had heard that he offered it to PRA before I was here and they turn him down. What were they thinking if true.

No, it was the other way around.
Some in the PRA wanted to buy this forum so that they could run it their way, and we said no.

 

[gyromike]

John,

If the PRA already has $60,000 on hand and it will only cost $13,000 out of pocket, why all the waffling?
Especially if the PRA will soon have another $100,000 as you alluded to in post #5.

Nobody wants to operate off an airport that will beat their machines up.
Fix the damn runway already!

 

[Txgyropilot]

We now have about 60K of your money as surplus in our bank accounts but before we spend any on the airport we need to learn our members wishes.

Should PRA spend $13,000 of your money to fix the runway and taxi way?

This is a very time sensitive vote the contractor is leaving town with the equipment and the bid will go up.
1st Bid from contractor in town was $42,000, this new bid is $20,000 to fix the cracks and resurface the runway and taxi ways.
Members have donated about $7,000 so we would like to spend $13,000 of your money.
We will continue requesting donations to pay for it so it may be paid back to us.
If you would like to donate here is the link: https://www.gofundme.com/resurface-p...ic-runway-fund
To vote:
1) Go to www.PRA.org and log in. You will be taken to the members only page.
2) Click the Green button that says " I'm a current PRA member and I'm currently signed in give me POST access to PRA's Ask the Experts Forum. "
3) Now your logged into our Forum Click the "What New" Tab it will show you everything posted in order for days. It should be the 1st thread at the top that says:
" Should we spend your money on repairing the Airports runway?"

Or vote by email:
Please vote YES or NO

Need your PRA #
email to [email protected].

The email hyperlink is misspelled. [email protected] should be [email protected], it appears correctly, but, if you click on it or copy the short cut, it is incorrect.

 

[okaneco1]

I vote yes to resurface the runway

 

[All_In]

No, it was the other way around.
Some in the PRA wanted to buy this forum so that they could run it their way, and we said no.

OH I did not know that Mike, good to learn what really happen. I was told they offered it to PRA so when it went so badly on the upgrade it was me that made the offer and still willing to make it like it was and maintain it exactly the same. We would keep all the same administrators only adding a few more.

Many think it is PRA site so not much would change in their minds. Only we will spend the money to make and keep it the best place in the world to learn.

I would LOVE to not have two forums and kill PRA's forum. Using by beloved RWF only working again. It would mean for me personally no more double posts for me with exactly the same amount of time I'm spending maintaining PRA forum.

If you have a price for it I will take it to the BOD and try and get you the money.

 

[All_In]

John,

If the PRA already has $60,000 on hand and it will only cost $13,000 out of pocket, why all the waffling?
Especially if the PRA will soon have another $100,000 as you alluded to in post #5.

Nobody wants to operate off an airport that will beat their machines up.
Fix the damn runway already!

The reason is again because of what I heard which may also not be true.
When Gary Goldsberry used his own money and donated the airport to PRA it added maintenance cost and many said they will never come to Mentone and use the airport.

I'm told we had over 3,000 members in PRA at that time and we lost 2,300 members over owning the airport.

I do not wish to lose any more members because we spend PRA's surpluses money on an airport.

So every time we need to spend money on the airport I feel we need to have the members tells us that is what they want.

It's their money we only earn it for them.

 

[All_In]

The email hyperlink is misspelled. [email protected] should be [email protected], it appears correctly, but, if you click on it or copy the short cut, it is incorrect.

Thank you dang dyslexia, I can never tell the difference.
Bruce Charnov caught it and I think I change it everywhere I posted incorrectly.

thank you so much for the heads up.

 

[All_In]

So far we have not receive any NO votes but few have voted.

 

[All_In]

There are exceptions to spending money on the airport without a vote by members.
If the expense is to generate more revenue then we do not ask the members. Example. We are installing hanger doors on all of the hangers.
This will protect our members rides but it will also allow me to rent the hanger out for $100 per month paying us back for the hangers with new revenues that will eventually paid for them and make a profit forever in the future.

 

[All_In]

The runway repair is a no-brainer at the cost quoted.

Regarding the idea on how to get more people up in gyros:
The plan to purchase a PRA gyro for training is probably not the way to go. Based on my research here, transporting a gyro has pitfalls. Instead of asking instructors to discount their cost and fly a gyro that has been transported all over, why not just use the $100k to subsidize the training? Every CFI already owns a trainer. We need students, not trainer gyros. A coupon for $100 per hour would get a lot of people up in the air quickly. One hundred grand would get 100 pilots 10 hours of training each. Adding 100 pilots to our ranks would be HUGE. I am starting my training next week. I don't need the subsidy but I am sure that others would jump on it and take a flight. It is also a win-win on the safety side. A CFI would simply submit the coupon and proof of training to get reimbursed from PRA.

John, contact me off line regarding the new website. I would like to help.

Tim

Dang Tim been tying to PM you. It's say I've hit my 70 PM. So deleted almost all of mine and still the same message. Tired deleting more and more 4 times.
Maybe your inbox if full. But after so many attempts I've given up on PM's

Here is the message:
Sorry for the delayed response. Been overwhelmed answering emails and Facebook posts and batch email.

My email JohnRountree at msn.com
PRA's cell 574 551 1501

I go to sleep at 2AM and get up at 6:00 AM dresses by 6:30 AM PST. Anytime is good for me.
My weakest area is the new CSS we need for desktop large screens, laptops, and cell phone.

Hope we can find a canned one and copy it for quickest results.

 

[Kevin_Richey]

The reason is again because of what I heard which may also not be true.
When Gary Goldsberry used his own money and donated the airport to PRA it added maintenance cost and many said they will never come to Mentone and use the airport.

I'm told we had over 3,000 members in PRA at that time and we lost 2,300 members over owning the airport.

I do not wish to lose any more members because we spend PRA's surpluses money on an airport.

So every time we need to spend money on the airport I feel we need to have the members tells us that is what they want.

It's their money we only earn it for them.

John: I asked Gary Goldsberry while @ Mentone several years back how the airport was acquired. The PRA had more than $50K (how much I do not know), and the former owner of the airport (an ATP) was wanting to sell. The price was $150K, so the terms was for that $50K down, and the balance was to be paid off @ $1K month for whoever many years that took to pay off. Don't know the interest rate.

The runway @ that time was in sad shape, from reports I'd heard, and some $$ was spent, as well as volunteer & professional labor to make it better.

I asked Gary who paid for that manufactured home/office sitting on the airport grounds. He replied that he & Art Evans both put up the money to buy that as well as to have it installed & hooked up to utilities.

He answered my next question as to that expense: $30K. I then asked him if the two of them have ever been repaid for any of that, and he replied "No". I gathered by his quiet demeanor that he & Art Evans were spending those funds out of their own pocket to HELP the PRA. They also guaranteed the loan for the airport purchase's payments using their own personal credit.

From my observations of the vocal, outspoken detractors of the PRA purchasing it's own airport is that almost everyone who bad mouthed the purchase was/is some PRA members (as well as some non-members) who live almost exclusively in the southeastern portions of the US.

Many comments made orientated around how the PRA funds were used to buy Gary an airport (which happens to be some 100 miles north of where he lives in Indiana), and how the airport should be sold and the monies returned to the PRA members, so that Gary & his friends wouldn't have their airport to use anymore.

Not having been to the Greencastle area of Indiana (western suburbs of Indianapolis), I find it hard to believe the logic of the detractors who believed the PRA bought Gary an airport. The Greencastle area certainly must have better airports that Gary would have liked to own, since they are so close to his home!

I've been to Mentone three times. Each time I saw Gary & his wife,Sue, work tirelessly in the little cantina serving food to the crowds in attendance. I saw the sweat pouring off their faces. Hours later, when I happened by again, they were still there working just as hard. Other workers (VOLUNTEERS-ALL) were working just as hard. Quietly giving of their time and sweat in the summertime heat.

I believe all the bad-mouthers owe a gigantic apology to Gary, his wife Sue, Art Evans, and all the other hard workers. They certainly didn't do all that work for pay. I do know Gary has opened his wallet several times and donated money to the PRA. So have others.

The loud-mouth detractors I would highly suspect of not even helping out, let alone parting with any of their precious dollars to help the all-volunteer PRA out. LeRoy Hardee of Tennessee might be an exception to my generalization of southern complainers. If there are other southerners who supported the PRA in that decision, then I'm not aware of them.

Since the airport purchase, has the PRA ever been not allowed to hold a gyroplane/helicopter event because of liability fears from municipalities who own their airports, like what happened to the PRA in other states right before it was scheduled to start? NO.

John: I do question the reason for large membership drop being entirely the reason being the Mentone airport purchase. We've had several downturns/recessions in the economy over these last 30 years. Several have stated that aviation in general has gone through large losses in pilots flying, aircraft purchases, and membership rolls of flying organizations reducing.

 

[All_In]

@Kevin
Hi Bro

And there the real rest of the story.... I'm too new to have a clue.
Good to know what really happened.

The BOD only knows we do not want to make that mistake again so we asked for donations so as not to piss anyone off.

Personally I've worked too hard to get to this STARTING point and do not want to take a risk.
The BOD does not have to ask as you elected us. Just better safe than sorry.

Also know I'm stealing this money from member benefits we have planed so that delays them.
Once we have paid for all the new member & chapter benefits and have extra money we will not have to asked as we are out of ideas for member benefits.
But we think of something new by then.

 

[Gyro28866]

Kevin:
I was starting to come around back then. My first Gyro Fly-in was at the Nationals in Greencastle. Personally, I support the BOD's decision to purchase the Mentone property. It gave all of us a home. As I recall, there was not enough time to put the decision to a vote; and the BOD made a decision and moved forward. The perception of the general membership was. You bought an airport and expect us to pay for it. Stick it! many of those individuals had an attitude of "what is in it for me, instead of what can I do to help"
And the first couple of years, the weather turned Mentone into a swamp. Mentone is "OUR" home. I am glad to see the BOD thinking about how can the properties be utilized to generate an income for PRA.
A big heart felt "THANK YOU" to all the current Board Members and all who have served in the past.

 

[All_In]

Great news everyone it was all YES votes, with no NO's. The runway will be finished THIS WEEK!!

 

[All_In]

Kevin:
I was starting to come around back then. My first Gyro Fly-in was at the Nationals in Greencastle. Personally, I support the BOD's decision to purchase the Mentone property. It gave all of us a home. As I recall, there was not enough time to put the decision to a vote; and the BOD made a decision and moved forward. The perception of the general membership was. You bought an airport and expect us to pay for it. Stick it! many of those individuals had an attitude of "what is in it for me, instead of what can I do to help"
And the first couple of years, the weather turned Mentone into a swamp. Mentone is "OUR" home. I am glad to see the BOD thinking about how can the properties be utilized to generate an income for PRA.
A big heart felt "THANK YOU" to all the current Board Members and all who have served in the past.

It is so good to learn what really happened.
Mikes post about the forum history, Kevin's and your history will help me make more informed decisions in the future.
Thank you all

 

[GyrOZprey]

A big thank-you to John & Brent plus all the quiet helpers who do the work to allow us to have a convention home & set up for the great week! Encourage newbies to come & get informed ... get intro flights & learn from forums & the hangar-flying! I'm planning to be there to help with the preparations ... the week prior! Seeya there!