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Should we spend $13,000 of your money to fix PRA's runway & taxi ways

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  • #16
    It might be wise to start another topic regarding training. I was suggesting a $100 per hour credit, not free training. I am also only suggesting subsidizing the first 10 hours. If you give away lessons you will attract the wrong crowd. If you provide endless hours, the motivation to improve skills is lessened. A subsidy would require the student to put some skin in the game and pay the CFI their full rate. Even using your example and plan, 33 new pilots would be a shot in the arm. I don't like the legal pitfalls that go along with the PRA being in the training business or owning a gyro. Sorry, I was a business owner before I retired and everyone is sue happy in the US. I am a defendant in a suit involving a leaking exterior door seal in a home. I am named as a defendant even though I was the electrical contractor! The homeowners are suing any trade who set foot on the site. (lake front $5 million dollar house so you can imagine how spoiled rotten the owner is) Totally ridiculous and the judge refuses to remove all non related trades from the action.

    I hope the PRA is ready for the can of worms that will be opened the minute the club owns a gyro.

    Respectfully, been there and done that.

    Comment


    • #17
      1st Bid from contractor in town was $42,000, this new bid is $20,000 to fix the cracks and resurface the runway and taxi ways
      $20K seems mighty cheap to completely resurface the runway and taxiway. However, if we have the funds available, I say "getter done". The price of repairs will only increase.
      Thinking outside the box a little; as we are a 501C3 Not for Profit. With a bit of creative accounting. Could the Contractor give us a bid of $50K and we pay $20K and the Contractor be issued a Tax Credit for $30K???
      I guess, I am asking if there is a legal way to create a incentive for the contractor?
      David McCutchen
      615-390-2228
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      2 busy 2 No!

      Comment


      • #18
        PS:
        It also takes care of another major problem. Because all PRA and chapter members are co-owners they can solo our gyro's and the chapters can rent then out at below cost say $50.00 or $25.00 PRA will set the rate for non instruction time in our aircraft and create revenue for the chapters and new members have something to fly until they can buy there own. The only rule will be that instruction in our aircraft is FREE and they have to build 100 hours in type before they can carry a passenger.
        Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
        Cheers,
        John Rountree

        PRA- Director, Secretary
        PRA- Business Manager

        PRA31 - Vice President of S.D. Rotorcraft Club
        http://www.Pra31.org

        U.S. Agent for Aviomania Aircraft... the most stable gyroplane on the market today.
        See: Aviomania USA http://www.AviomaniaUSA.com

        OEM Dealer for MGL Avionics - glass cockpit EFIS for Experimental aircraft Ask about DISCOUNTS for PRA MEMBERS

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Gyro28866 View Post

          $20K seems mighty cheap to completely resurface the runway and taxiway. However, if we have the funds available, I say "getter done". The price of repairs will only increase.
          Thinking outside the box a little; as we are a 501C3 Not for Profit. With a bit of creative accounting. Could the Contractor give us a bid of $50K and we pay $20K and the Contractor be issued a Tax Credit for $30K???
          I guess, I am asking if there is a legal way to create a incentive for the contractor?
          I was worried about the difference in price too, but Brent assure me it will be repaired so it will be smooth and stop the damage from getting worse each years because of the open cracks and water freezing during the winter.

          No the accounting if they give us a bill for $50K but we only pay them $20K, the net is still the same $20K so they do not pay taxes on the $50 because that's not what they received. What we used to do was pay them 50K and they donate back $30K to PAR, but that illegal now and they only would get back they same tax rate % of the 30K if 20% tax rate that means they are paying us $23K our of their pocket. But that used to work because we could give them the entire 30K so it wasn't their money and just left the tax deduction for their benefit. Oh I miss the good old days.
          Last edited by All_In; 06-11-2018, 07:28 AM.
          Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
          Cheers,
          John Rountree

          PRA- Director, Secretary
          PRA- Business Manager

          PRA31 - Vice President of S.D. Rotorcraft Club
          http://www.Pra31.org

          U.S. Agent for Aviomania Aircraft... the most stable gyroplane on the market today.
          See: Aviomania USA http://www.AviomaniaUSA.com

          OEM Dealer for MGL Avionics - glass cockpit EFIS for Experimental aircraft Ask about DISCOUNTS for PRA MEMBERS

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by HighAltitude View Post
            It might be wise to start another topic regarding training. I was suggesting a $100 per hour credit, not free training. I am also only suggesting subsidizing the first 10 hours. If you give away lessons you will attract the wrong crowd. If you provide endless hours, the motivation to improve skills is lessened. A subsidy would require the student to put some skin in the game and pay the CFI their full rate. Even using your example and plan, 33 new pilots would be a shot in the arm. I don't like the legal pitfalls that go along with the PRA being in the training business or owning a gyro. Sorry, I was a business owner before I retired and everyone is sue happy in the US. I am a defendant in a suit involving a leaking exterior door seal in a home. I am named as a defendant even though I was the electrical contractor! The homeowners are suing any trade who set foot on the site. (lake front $5 million dollar house so you can imagine how spoiled rotten the owner is) Totally ridiculous and the judge refuses to remove all non related trades from the action.

            I hope the PRA is ready for the can of worms that will be opened the minute the club owns a gyro.

            Respectfully, been there and done that.
            I know I was a Piper dealer for 10 years and set up the 1st in the country corporation called Piper Partners for co-owners.
            It's allowed us sell them their more expensive dream aircraft as shares of stocks by sharing the cost with 4 or more partners.
            Was the top Piper dealer in sales in small models Pipers for 7 of the 10 years while in business.
            We had no law suites because the way I wrote the co-owner contract and will use about the same contract for PRA adding the new LLC to it which we did not have available way back then.

            It's way worth the risk as the only asset in each LLC is the now wrecked gyroplane so they can have the asset if they win the trial and because we have insurance the insurance company will defend us because they are on the hook for the damages. But with no money to win but a wrecked aircraft few will sue as attorney do not see a pay day in the case.

            In any event I've already donated all but $1,500 dollars, to pay it off, to buy San Diego Rotorcraft clubs two place trainer and will have it flying before PRA has the money to do their 1st one.
            So the program will be tested here locally before PRA makes the final vote.
            Last edited by All_In; 06-11-2018, 07:41 AM.
            Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
            Cheers,
            John Rountree

            PRA- Director, Secretary
            PRA- Business Manager

            PRA31 - Vice President of S.D. Rotorcraft Club
            http://www.Pra31.org

            U.S. Agent for Aviomania Aircraft... the most stable gyroplane on the market today.
            See: Aviomania USA http://www.AviomaniaUSA.com

            OEM Dealer for MGL Avionics - glass cockpit EFIS for Experimental aircraft Ask about DISCOUNTS for PRA MEMBERS

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Jazzenjohn View Post
              John, I think the training stuff deserves to have its own thread.
              Well until I test it here it's a dream so not sure it will help until I have real data to report and compare to other idea's at that time.
              But there will be a thread much sooner than folks expect as long as we keep earning this much money.

              However if anyone has better idea about anything please start a thread and I'll try and find it when posted but I still seem to miss many posts here until some bring them back up answering or asking a new questions. The Forum SUCKS finding anything compared to the old one, so I just don't come here as often.
              Last edited by All_In; 06-11-2018, 07:54 AM.
              Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
              Cheers,
              John Rountree

              PRA- Director, Secretary
              PRA- Business Manager

              PRA31 - Vice President of S.D. Rotorcraft Club
              http://www.Pra31.org

              U.S. Agent for Aviomania Aircraft... the most stable gyroplane on the market today.
              See: Aviomania USA http://www.AviomaniaUSA.com

              OEM Dealer for MGL Avionics - glass cockpit EFIS for Experimental aircraft Ask about DISCOUNTS for PRA MEMBERS

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by GyroRon View Post
                Im no longer a PRA member, but I say to spend the money and fix it. As long as the PRA owns the airport, the PRA needs to maintain that airport. 13 grand is not alot of money for fixing a runway in the grand scheme of things
                I agree Bro, however we are collecting donations to maintain it as not all members use it.
                Only it will take a year or two with donations and we need it fixed sooner or it will just keep costing more money the longer we put it off.

                This is more like members giving us permission to loan the money to fix it now and keep asking for donations to pay them back over two years.

                Also I really miss you at our fly-ins,, I need a Ron gyro ride fix badly. Not been the same since you started motorcycles.
                Wish you would have been their and done that back when I was ALL IN to them. Only play on dunes now and only race the Baja 500 & 1000 once a year and not motocross anymore.
                Last edited by All_In; 06-11-2018, 08:12 AM.
                Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
                Cheers,
                John Rountree

                PRA- Director, Secretary
                PRA- Business Manager

                PRA31 - Vice President of S.D. Rotorcraft Club
                http://www.Pra31.org

                U.S. Agent for Aviomania Aircraft... the most stable gyroplane on the market today.
                See: Aviomania USA http://www.AviomaniaUSA.com

                OEM Dealer for MGL Avionics - glass cockpit EFIS for Experimental aircraft Ask about DISCOUNTS for PRA MEMBERS

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by JasonS

                  Could the PRA buy this forum from it's current operator or owner and then just merge it into the PRA once and for all to resolve dueling forum issues?
                  Sounds like you have more then enough funds to cast a vote on it!
                  Just a suggestion since I am not currently a PRA member (full disclosure).
                  I love this forum and these people. They take the most valuable thing there is, TIME, to help the world be a better place.

                  They have put up with me and taught me almost everything I know about gyro's in the shortest time possible. Which means I'm almost up to dummy level...

                  Many people think PRA owns the forum. I get PM's and email before when it was running right to fix their accounts here and now to fix our crappy forum all the time.
                  I had heard that he offered it to PRA before I was here and they turn him down. What were they thinking if true.
                  Learning this I offered him for PRA to take it over when the upgrading when so bad, but no joy... so I sent him money personally and had PRA sent him a check for $250.00 to help fix it.

                  We would be delighted to fix it and maintain it exactly the same as it is now and pay Todd for it. Just let me know how much he needs.

                  But he's really never done this for money. He's another person who makes the world a better place and does this for the community.
                  If PRA can help please let us know.
                  Last edited by All_In; 06-11-2018, 03:56 PM.
                  Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
                  Cheers,
                  John Rountree

                  PRA- Director, Secretary
                  PRA- Business Manager

                  PRA31 - Vice President of S.D. Rotorcraft Club
                  http://www.Pra31.org

                  U.S. Agent for Aviomania Aircraft... the most stable gyroplane on the market today.
                  See: Aviomania USA http://www.AviomaniaUSA.com

                  OEM Dealer for MGL Avionics - glass cockpit EFIS for Experimental aircraft Ask about DISCOUNTS for PRA MEMBERS

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    If your an ACTIVE PRA member and having trouble voting to repair our runway.

                    Please vote YES or NO

                    by email
                    Need your PRA #
                    to PraGlobalSupportTeam@gmail.com.

                    Last edited by All_In; 06-11-2018, 05:16 PM.
                    Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
                    Cheers,
                    John Rountree

                    PRA- Director, Secretary
                    PRA- Business Manager

                    PRA31 - Vice President of S.D. Rotorcraft Club
                    http://www.Pra31.org

                    U.S. Agent for Aviomania Aircraft... the most stable gyroplane on the market today.
                    See: Aviomania USA http://www.AviomaniaUSA.com

                    OEM Dealer for MGL Avionics - glass cockpit EFIS for Experimental aircraft Ask about DISCOUNTS for PRA MEMBERS

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by All_In View Post
                      I had heard that he offered it to PRA before I was here and they turn him down. What were they thinking if true.
                      No, it was the other way around.
                      Some in the PRA wanted to buy this forum so that they could run it their way, and we said no.


                      Mike Gaspard
                      Forum Administrator
                      Kaplan, Louisiana
                      Bensen B8MG, NX36MG

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        John,

                        If the PRA already has $60,000 on hand and it will only cost $13,000 out of pocket, why all the waffling?
                        Especially if the PRA will soon have another $100,000 as you alluded to in post #5.

                        Nobody wants to operate off an airport that will beat their machines up.
                        Fix the damn runway already!

                        Mike Gaspard
                        Forum Administrator
                        Kaplan, Louisiana
                        Bensen B8MG, NX36MG

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by All_In View Post
                          We now have about 60K of your money as surplus in our bank accounts but before we spend any on the airport we need to learn our members wishes.

                          Should PRA spend $13,000 of your money to fix the runway and taxi way?

                          This is a very time sensitive vote the contractor is leaving town with the equipment and the bid will go up.
                          1st Bid from contractor in town was $42,000, this new bid is $20,000 to fix the cracks and resurface the runway and taxi ways.
                          Members have donated about $7,000 so we would like to spend $13,000 of your money.
                          We will continue requesting donations to pay for it so it may be paid back to us.
                          If you would like to donate here is the link: https://www.gofundme.com/resurface-p...ic-runway-fund
                          To vote:
                          1) Go to www.PRA.org and log in. You will be taken to the members only page.
                          2) Click the Green button that says " I'm a current PRA member and I'm currently signed in give me POST access to PRA's Ask the Experts Forum. "
                          3) Now your logged into our Forum Click the "What New" Tab it will show you everything posted in order for days. It should be the 1st thread at the top that says:
                          " Should we spend your money on repairing the Airports runway?"

                          Or vote by email:
                          Please vote YES or NO

                          Need your PRA #
                          email to PraGlobalSupportTeam@gmail.com.
                          The email hyperlink is misspelled. PraGlobalSypportTeam@gmail.com should be PraGlobalSupportTeam@gmail.com, it appears correctly, but, if you click on it or copy the short cut, it is incorrect.
                          Kind Regards,

                          Tom Duncan

                          Blog: http://texassportpilot.blogspot.com/

                          PRA #42071
                          EAA #738671
                          AOPA #05028938

                          Member: Peach State Rotorcraft Club http://peachstaterotorcraft.org

                          “Success is peace of mind which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you made the effort to become the best of which you are capable.” - John Wooden

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I vote yes to resurface the runway

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by gyromike View Post

                              No, it was the other way around.
                              Some in the PRA wanted to buy this forum so that they could run it their way, and we said no.

                              OH I did not know that Mike, good to learn what really happen. I was told they offered it to PRA so when it went so badly on the upgrade it was me that made the offer and still willing to make it like it was and maintain it exactly the same. We would keep all the same administrators only adding a few more.

                              Many think it is PRA site so not much would change in their minds. Only we will spend the money to make and keep it the best place in the world to learn.

                              I would LOVE to not have two forums and kill PRA's forum. Using by beloved RWF only working again. It would mean for me personally no more double posts for me with exactly the same amount of time I'm spending maintaining PRA forum.

                              If you have a price for it I will take it to the BOD and try and get you the money.
                              Last edited by All_In; 06-12-2018, 12:12 PM.
                              Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
                              Cheers,
                              John Rountree

                              PRA- Director, Secretary
                              PRA- Business Manager

                              PRA31 - Vice President of S.D. Rotorcraft Club
                              http://www.Pra31.org

                              U.S. Agent for Aviomania Aircraft... the most stable gyroplane on the market today.
                              See: Aviomania USA http://www.AviomaniaUSA.com

                              OEM Dealer for MGL Avionics - glass cockpit EFIS for Experimental aircraft Ask about DISCOUNTS for PRA MEMBERS

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by gyromike View Post
                                John,

                                If the PRA already has $60,000 on hand and it will only cost $13,000 out of pocket, why all the waffling?
                                Especially if the PRA will soon have another $100,000 as you alluded to in post #5.

                                Nobody wants to operate off an airport that will beat their machines up.
                                Fix the damn runway already!
                                The reason is again because of what I heard which may also not be true.
                                When Gary Goldsberry used his own money and donated the airport to PRA it added maintenance cost and many said they will never come to Mentone and use the airport.

                                I'm told we had over 3,000 members in PRA at that time and we lost 2,300 members over owning the airport.

                                I do not wish to lose any more members because we spend PRA's surpluses money on an airport.

                                So every time we need to spend money on the airport I feel we need to have the members tells us that is what they want.

                                It's their money we only earn it for them.
                                Last edited by All_In; 06-12-2018, 11:53 AM.
                                Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
                                Cheers,
                                John Rountree

                                PRA- Director, Secretary
                                PRA- Business Manager

                                PRA31 - Vice President of S.D. Rotorcraft Club
                                http://www.Pra31.org

                                U.S. Agent for Aviomania Aircraft... the most stable gyroplane on the market today.
                                See: Aviomania USA http://www.AviomaniaUSA.com

                                OEM Dealer for MGL Avionics - glass cockpit EFIS for Experimental aircraft Ask about DISCOUNTS for PRA MEMBERS

                                Comment

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