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  • To anyone who does Condition Inspections on MTO Sport 2010 models...

    My IA is trying to complete my Condition Inspection and in the area were it talks about the gimbal head inspection it mentions 62-32-00 5-1, 62-32-00 8-1, and finally 53-00-00 8-1. My IA needs to see these to complete the inspection but I can't find them anywhere and the AG USA lady over the phone didn't know either. It's the only thing holding me back from installing the rotor system and getting it signed off.

    I called Auto-Gyro USA as previously recommended but I still haven't been able to get Terri on the phone and the person who answered told me Terri wouldn't know the answer anyway. She told me she thinks that might be in the Heavy Maintenance Manual and proceeded to look up class dates. I asked her if a person doesn't go to the Heavy Maintenance Class they can't do their Condition Inspections?

    My question would be to anyone who does the Condition Inspection on the MTO Sport 2010 model, does anyone have the Heavy Maintenance Manual and can check this please?

  • #2
    Try this link to the Heavy Maintenance Manual and see if it has what you need.


    https://www.auto-gyro.com/chameleon/...-06-13_HVY.pdf

    Comment


    • #3
      That lunch I owe you is getting more expensive as the days go on.....

      Ok so why couldn't Auto Gyro USA send me this link? I'm seriously thinking I made a big mistake buying an Auto Gyro with their lack of knowledgeable people that only know how to sell sell sell, even when I don't need the parts. Hopefully with help from others here I won't end up selling it too quickly since I just bought it.

      I found 2 of the three I'm looking for in that manual. I still can't find anything on 53-00-00 8-1. The inspection checklist AG-F-PCA-MT-EN-V1-J says : Consider retrofit of tie bars at mast root (53-00-00 8-1).

      Comment


      • #4
        Just as I can complain when I feel someone doesn't do something right, I'm the first to acknowledge when someone does something right. Terri from AutoGyro USA just called me and we had a heart to heart talk about her new over-eager employee. Terri also answered one of my biggest concerns and promised to find out the last piece of the puzzle ( 53-00-00 8-1 ) so I can finish my inspection and be able to enjoy the gyro I purchased.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Piot135pd View Post
          Just as I can complain when I feel someone doesn't do something right, I'm the first to acknowledge when someone does something right. Terri from AutoGyro USA just called me and we had a heart to heart talk about her new over-eager employee. Terri also answered one of my biggest concerns and promised to find out the last piece of the puzzle ( 53-00-00 8-1 ) so I can finish my inspection and be able to enjoy the gyro I purchased.
          The main pilot for AG is Bob, sorry can't remember his last name. Ask Terry to have him call you. He is very knowledgeable about the AG gyros, particularly things to do with the rotor head etc. Getting to know them at shows like Sun' n' Fun or Oshkosh is also helpful.
          I think one of the reasons you are having some issues here is that you have a gyro that in the US is experimental, but in Europe is certified. I am guessing that your IA has little or no experience with gyros which probably makes the manual a little more difficult to follow. I recall that the manuals were not that great, probably partially as a result of being translated from German. I think whichever gyro you ultimately decide to purchase in the US, you will have the same problem if you only try to follow manuals etc, and you will be in a far better situation if you develop a good relationship with the principals in the company you choose to purchase from. You did not not buy yours directly from AG so unfortunately you don't know the folks and have not had an opportunity to get to know them, who to call etc. And unfortunately whoever you purchased it from does not seem to be of much help either. Once you get to know the folks at AG, you will find they are just as helpful as any of the other companies.
          Hope this helps a little, unfortunately buying any gyro in the US 2nd or 3rd hand you might run into this kind of issue until you work out who you need to know, in these companies. They are all small companies in the US, and none of the gyros are well known to most IA's say like a Cessna would be. Depending where you are, and your IA, you might even have the same problem with Rotax. Many or most IA's don't have a clue about Rotax maintenance. So make sure your IA knows Rotax. Of course once you build your own gyro from a kit, you will be the builder and knowledgeable and certified to do your own inspections. If you have not already, I highly recommend you take at least the first Rotax maintenance course at one of the Rotax service facilities.
          The other thing is that you will find that the AG manuals require much more time related, disassemblies, parts replacements etc than most AG owners I know actually perform. Again, this has to do with the CYA approach in any certified aircraft maintenance manual, versus the ability of an experimental aircraft owner/builder to use their own discretion based on a good inspection, assessment of play in the rotor head components etc. If you have not already experienced it, welcome to the experimental world. It's a little different and knowing the right people is key.
          Last edited by loftus; 08-22-2018, 03:31 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by loftus View Post

            The main pilot for AG is Bob, sorry can't remember his last name. Ask Terry to have him call you. He is very knowledgeable about the AG gyros, particularly things to do with the rotor head etc. Getting to know them at shows like Sun' n' Fun or Oshkosh is also helpful.
            I think one of the reasons you are having some issues here is that you have a gyro that in the US is experimental, but in Europe is certified. I am guessing that your IA has little or no experience with gyros which probably makes the manual a little more difficult to follow. I recall that the manuals were not that great, probably partially as a result of being translated from German. I think whichever gyro you ultimately decide to purchase in the US, you will have the same problem if you only try to follow manuals etc, and you will be in a far better situation if you develop a good relationship with the principals in the company you choose to purchase from. You did not not buy yours directly from AG so unfortunately you don't know the folks and have not had an opportunity to get to know them, who to call etc. And unfortunately whoever you purchased it from does not seem to be of much help either. Once you get to know the folks at AG, you will find they are just as helpful as any of the other companies.
            Hope this helps a little, unfortunately buying any gyro in the US 2nd or 3rd hand you might run into this kind of issue until you work out who you need to know, in these companies. They are all small companies in the US, and none of the gyros are well known to most IA's say like a Cessna would be. Depending where you are, and your IA, you might even have the same problem with Rotax. Many or most IA's don't have a clue about Rotax maintenance. So make sure your IA knows Rotax. Of course once you build your own gyro from a kit, you will be the builder and knowledgeable and certified to do your own inspections. If you have not already, I highly recommend you take at least the first Rotax maintenance course at one of the Rotax service facilities.
            The other thing is that you will find that the AG manuals require much more time related, disassemblies, parts replacements etc than most AG owners I know actually perform. Again, this has to do with the CYA approach in any certified aircraft maintenance manual, versus the ability of an experimental aircraft owner/builder to use their own discretion based on a good inspection, assessment of play in the rotor head components etc. If you have not already experienced it, welcome to the experimental world. It's a little different and knowing the right people is key.
            Yes my IA isn't experienced in gyro maintenance but after a little time getting used to how the checklist is done it's really not that hard. The only hard part is not having the required manuals to be able to find what they want you to do. Once Alan got me the additional manual I needed I was able to move on. Only need one more Job Card and Terri from AG USA already emailed Germany for it since she didn't have it either.

            I appreciate everything you wrote but have an small issue with :...the AG manuals require much more time related, disassemblies, parts replacements etc than most AG owners I know actually perform."

            Yes it's very detailed but it doesn't take that much more time, plus it's only my life up there, so no need to rush or cut corners for me. I can however see how someone would be tempted to skip some items, especially in a 65 hour machine, but since the best way to really know if everything is ok is to do the entire checklist, I don't mind spending a few days doing it. I can guarantee that next year it'll be smooth sailings now that I have everything and have found where everything is located.

            If all goes well tomorrow I install the rotor system and get it signed off for flight ! Now back to replacing the thin general purpose foam from AG with some thicker high density foam.

            Thanks again,
            Carlos


            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Piot135pd View Post

              Yes my IA isn't experienced in gyro maintenance but after a little time getting used to how the checklist is done it's really not that hard. The only hard part is not having the required manuals to be able to find what they want you to do. Once Alan got me the additional manual I needed I was able to move on. Only need one more Job Card and Terri from AG USA already emailed Germany for it since she didn't have it either.

              I appreciate everything you wrote but have an small issue with :...the AG manuals require much more time related, disassemblies, parts replacements etc than most AG owners I know actually perform."

              Yes it's very detailed but it doesn't take that much more time, plus it's only my life up there, so no need to rush or cut corners for me. I can however see how someone would be tempted to skip some items, especially in a 65 hour machine, but since the best way to really know if everything is ok is to do the entire checklist, I don't mind spending a few days doing it. I can guarantee that next year it'll be smooth sailings now that I have everything and have found where everything is located.

              If all goes well tomorrow I install the rotor system and get it signed off for flight ! Now back to replacing the thin general purpose foam from AG with some thicker high density foam.

              Thanks again,
              Carlos

              I'm not advocating you cut any corners, and agree following the checklist is key - and particularly at 65 hours - there's nothing much to do except for visual inspections. Just stating the realities of the experimental world. If you follow the AG manuals exactly as written, you will see that as you get up into a few hundred hours, things like teeter bolt replacement, then complete head disassembly and parts replacements etc are mandated. In the certified world these things are mandated and IA's are required to perform these functions, parts replacement etc whether they are necessary or not. In the experimental world these are often at the discretion of the builder. In which case one would perform a head inspection before every flight, and more detailed inspections, teeter bolt inspection, torque checks and angle measurements etc at the time of condition inspections. With the AG rotor assembly you want to grease the head every 5 hours - and if you don't the machine will tell you it needs grease by the feel and shake in your controls. With good care of the head, the head, teeter bolt etc will last way beyond the mandated replacement requirements of the AG manuals, and any variances will become obvious upon inspection, flight feel etc, etc. Obviously it's up to you whether you want to follow these AG mandates, for complete disassembly of the head etc, just pointing out that many of these mandates will not even be published for non-certified aircraft and often times the recommendations are simply for inspection and then replace as needed according to the builders discretion. For example, I think teeter bolt replacement is mandated at 200 hours. In the certified world you would have no choice. In the experimental world you could examine the teeter bolt for wear etc, evaluate the play in the bushings etc, and make your own decision whether to replace a teeter bolt, bushings etc that may be in perfect condition, or not.
              Anyway, good luck with finishing everything up, hope you have tons of happy flying hours. I loved my MTO, had to sell it to free up some cash to build my Aircam, but I definitely have another gyro in my future. Everyone needs at least two aircraft. :) And yes thicker foam in the seats is key.

              Comment


              • #8
                Got it.

                BTW the time limits have changed on lots of parts. There's a SB that came out and those bolts are now 1500 hours or on condition with no years limitation. Fuel filters were every 200 hours or 2 years but now are 300 hours and on condition with 5 years limitation. Fuel pumps used to be 5 years and are now on condition and no other limitation. Another expensive one is engine mounts with 1500 and 5 years went to 1500 or on condition with no years limitation.

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                • #9
                  https://www.auto-gyro.com/chameleon/...MT-EN-V1-J.pdf

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thatís the checklist Iím using. If you notice on page 4 right before the section called Flight Control it mentions the mass root and 53-00-00 8-1. Thatís the Job Page I cant find.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      When I bought my used Calidus, I had several issues and I found Mike Ripley (410) 212-1357 to be very helpful. He is an A&P who has done many AutoGyro builds and builder assists. He used to work for AutoGyro USA but now is with Kent Aero still at the same airport. He was very helpful over the phone the last time I called him. Ray

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rainman View Post
                        When I bought my used Calidus, I had several issues and I found Mike Ripley (410) 212-1357 to be very helpful. He is an A&P who has done many AutoGyro builds and builder assists. He used to work for AutoGyro USA but now is with Kent Aero still at the same airport. He was very helpful over the phone the last time I called him. Ray
                        Thank you for the info. I'm finally done with the inspection part and I know next year it'll be a lot easier now that I know how everything is supposed to go. Now all I have left to do is reinstall the blades onto the hub and then the rotor system onto the teeter tower. Since it's the first time I do it I'll take my time. I have some blade sawhorses of different heights to accommodate the coning angle that the previous owner gave me. I'll do it in a couple of hours and hopefully take it for a spin tomorrow morning. Now it's time to go make myself a milkshake and watch some TV, it's a little warm in Texas today.

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                        • #13
                          Depending on where you are in Texas, there are AutoGyro experienced A&Ps in Clebourne and near Houston at Fair Weather, Just FYI.

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