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Hours high or low?

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  • Hours high or low?

    Looking at several MTO Sports. They all have various hours and years they were built. They range from, just over 200 hours and 2 years old to one that has 700 hours and is 7 years old. What is considered high hours on a MTO? If machines are current on annuals and appear to be taken care of. What wear on parts would be on a 700 hour machine? Just getting into this aircraft and looking for your experience and guidance. Thanks

  • #2
    My Calidus has 700 hours on it, and looks and runs like new. I find that aircraft that are flown regularly tend to have engines that last longer than ones that sit. I would buy a high time gyro (that has been well maintained) in a heart beat.
    Cammie Patch
    CFI, CFII, MEI, ATP, A&P/IA
    Rotax Heavy Maintenance Technician
    AutoGyro Dealer/CFI
    Glass Cockpit Aviation
    cammie@glasscockpitaviation.com

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    • #3
      If you got time you can browse through the gyros on G-INFO ( UK CAA ) - Hours flown is updated each year

      For example MT-03 had 1553 flight hours in August 2017

      see

      https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalap...03&dataindex=2


      If you want to search more or for other types use the SEARCH AGAIN button top right - enjoy

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      • #4
        The required maintenance and replacement component times are available on line.

        If you spend some time with it you will know how much you will need to spend for the limited life components in the future.

        Think about how much you will be flying and when from a calendar standpoint you will have to replace the expensive. In my opinion all AutoGyro products require a lot of maintenance to remain airworthy and most of it repeats so there are not large unexpected expenses. The blades are relatively inexpensive. The labor for replacing some of the larger life limited components is not.

        This research will also identify if the log book is filled out correctly. I would not buy a gyroplane with an incomplete log book because I feel it is an indication of the quality of the work.

        If a Rotax 912 or 914 has been using 100LL make certain they have used the correct oil and it has been changed every 25 hours.

        If the 914s have not been cooled down properly there may be problems that are hard to see but will be expensive to diagnose and fix.

        If I was buying a used AutoGiro I would budget a minimum of $1,500 to check her over and make her airworthy. I would log it as an annual condition inspection.

        A pre-buy inspection can be a big money saver if performed by the right mechanic and worthless if performed by someone who won't take the time to learn what to look for.
        Regards, Vance Breese Gyroplane CFI http://www.breeseaircraft.com/

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        • #5
          Both the 200 and 700 hour machine are low time,the 200 hr machine could be in worse shape the 700 hr one other it depends on the care they have received.

          If you don't know what your looking at find someone that does,it probably will save you money and grief down the line.
          Best Regards,
          Eddie Sigman,Polvadera,nm
          (575) 835-4921

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          • #6
            Higher hours = proven machines...provided there were no mishaps. I would caution that you have more than one set of experienced eyeballs go over the machine you may be looking to purchase.
            Be aware that the older they are, the more maintenance will be required to maintain airworthiness.....that is to say, as time goes on, parts wear out.
            I would not be afraid to purchase a well maintained (documented) unit.
            Mark
            __________________

            Risk lurks in the edges of marginality.. ..There are penalties to be paid for pushing the envelope..
            The speed in which a woman says "nothing" when asked "What's wrong?" is inversely proportional to the severity of the storm that's coming.
            No tyrant, foreign or domestic, should be permitted to die a natural death.

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            • #7
              Think about how many hours you will fly in a year. 100 hours or less is common. Both machine have flown about 100 hours a year. Given the same price, condition, and equipment, I'd go for the newer machine. If I recall, Autogyro has a 2000 hour limit on the airframe, and the engine also has an expected life of 2000 hours. Rotax also has a 5 year time limit on the engine rubber as well. I'd check the 7 year old machine to see if it was done.

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              • #8
                Thanks everyone for the information. Where do you look to find Rotax Mechanic in your area? The one I knew is out of business?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sody View Post
                  Thanks everyone for the information. Where do you look to find Rotax Mechanic in your area? The one I knew is out of business?
                  Finding a Rotax mechanic can be tough. I'd suggest calling Lockwood and asking for a reference. It's how I found one when I needed to replace the push rods and rocker arms due to a service bulletin. --Rotax is a very good engine, but a bit different than a Lycoming or Continental. Rotax is all metric, and like every other engine, some special tools are required too. And if a mechanic doesn't have the volume, it just doesn't make sense for them to invest in the tools, training, etc.

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                  • #10
                    Looking at several MTO Sports. They all have various hours and years they were built. They range from, just over 200 hours and 2 years old to one that has 700 hours and is 7 years old. What is considered high hours on a MTO? If machines are current on annuals and appear to be taken care of. What wear on parts would be on a 700 hour machine? Just getting into this aircraft and looking for your experience and guidance. Thanks
                    Sody, I would use great caution here.
                    Do ample research on their blade replacement issues after 300 hours.
                    They are sexy German machines, but IMO (and others whom I trust) they are not as robust as they are sexy.
                    I personally would not buy a used MTO Sport with 700 hours on its rotor system. YMMV.

                    Regards, Kolibri



                    PP - ASEL (Piper 180, C172, RV-7A), SP - Gyro (Calidus, RAF), soloed in gliders; checkride soon

                    Wasn't happy with my RAF's pitch instability, so I installed a Boyer H-Stab to my great satisfaction!

                    "My expectations: disclose the truth I need to fly safely, and act like you truly care about quality. Anything less is greed or laziness."

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                    • #11
                      One of the benefits of buying a used example of any of the established Eurogyro machines is that there are standard manufacturers advisories issued for changes etc for both the aircraft and the engine (Rotax). So you should research these for all the appropriate years on any aircraft. (Gyro or FW). A properly maintained MTO with attention to all the advisories and TLC from the owner should be in excellent flying condition at 200 or at 700 hours. In addition there have been many discussions in this section on MTO's pertaining to user experiences and occasional problems that you should inspect. Examples are the pre rotator bracket on the engine and in certain circumstances (like extremely hot areas of Australia - the landing gear. Obviously a lot depends on price and the individual aircraft - I have seen an example of a poorly maintained 400 hour MTO that I would not go near, and also a 700 hour plus MTO that I would buy in a heartbeat. Then of course, depends on price and how much you would be saving buying an older machine.

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