New RAF website

Timchick

Tim Chick
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Messages
10,894
Location
Panama City, Florida
Aircraft
Sport Copter Vortex, 582 Greyhead
Total Flight Time
~30
There's a new RAF web site up:

http://www.rafgyro.co.za/

Some sample quotes from the FAQ section:

Q. Why isn't there insurance... ?
A. Insurance companies have written insurance policies on the RAF aircraft because of their extraordinary safety record and their exclusive use of Ask First Society flight instructors.

Q. What is it that makes the RAF is so safe... ?
A. There are several factors here. First of all is the many thousands of hours of engineering that have gone into the design. Personal interest by every one at the factory to assure quality control and RAF's commitment to assuring that each perspective pilot receives the best flight instruction available.



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There's a new RAF web site up:

http://www.rafgyro.co.za/

Some sample quotes from the FAQ section:

Q. Why isn't there insurance... ?
A. Insurance companies have written insurance policies on the RAF aircraft because of their extraordinary safety record and their exclusive use of Ask First Society flight instructors.

Q. What is it that makes the RAF is so safe... ?
A. There are several factors here. First of all is the many thousands of hours of engineering that have gone into the design. Personal interest by every one at the factory to assure quality control and RAF's commitment to assuring that each perspective pilot receives the best flight instruction available.
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OH

MY

GAWD! :eek: :der:
 
I think it’s hilarious in a macabre way.

I especially like the part about thousands of hours of engineering.

It almost seems like Don LeFleur has moved to South Africa but what they’ve done is to lift the spiel off the old RAF site.
 
Well, if you have lousy engineers it COULD take thousands of hours. :)
If you have none, it could take even longer.
Hopefully, the more stable designs will outsell it.
What's this Ass First Society ? Surely a bigger rudder would fix that.
 
extraordinary safety record

From dictionary.reference.com (my emphasis):

ex·traor·di·nar·y /ɪkˈstrɔrdnˌɛri, ˌɛkstrəˈɔr-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ik-strawr-dn-er-ee, ek-struh-awr-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective

  1. beyond what is usual, ordinary, regular, or established: extraordinary costs.
  2. exceptional in character, amount, extent, degree, etc.; noteworthy; remarkable: extraordinary speed; an extraordinary man.
  3. (of an official, employee, etc.) outside of or additional to the ordinary staff; having a special, often temporary task or responsibility: minister extraordinary and plenipotentiary.

[Origin: 1425–75; late ME extraordinarie < L extrāordinārius beyond what is ordinary. See extra-, ordinary]

—Synonyms 1. inordinate. 2. uncommon, singular, rare, phenomenal, special, signal.
—Antonyms 1, 2. common, usual.

It's fair to say that the RAF 2000 has an "extraordinary" safety record. The British CAA/AAIB test pilots also concluded that it has "extraordinary" stability as well. Meaning, the antonym (opposite) of common or usual.

cheers

-=K=-
 
Can’t argue with the dictionary, I suppose.

When I was in grammar school the common meaning of the expression; “exceptional student” was gifted rather than retarded.

In the politically correct context of the public school environment, exceptional student applies almost exclusively to mentally retarded students.

Technically correct for both.

It is technically correct to say the RAF has an exceptional safety record.
 
What I do not understand is why anyone attempting to resurect the RAF 2000 would not take a lesson from the mistakes made by the previous owners of the RAF design and redesign it into a stable machine?



It is technically correct to say the RAF has an exceptional safety record.

Do you mean it has killed an exceptional number of people for the number of hours the design has flown?
 
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There’s exceptionally good and there’s exceptionally bad.

I don’t believe our friends in SA would agree with you Chuck E., that a stock RAF-2000 is unstable.

How could the CAA test pilot have reached such a conclusion with only a few hours in type when nearly all the aficionados agree that ~150 hours are required for proficiency?
 
What I do not understand is why anyone attempting to resurect the RAF 2000 would not take a lesson from the mistakes made by the previous owners of the RAF design and redesign it into a stable machine?


That is what gets me.

I am no RAF expert but I have been in two of them now.

Both were excellent machines and to my eyes had very professional workmanship.

Everyone who produced gyro kits (to my knowledge) in the post-Bensen era had at least a somewhat high thrustline and the majority were unstable or at least were not as highly stable as a HTL machine should be to be safe.

We now have a clear and easy to understand view of what mistakes and oversights were made when hobbyists designed their own gyros and then formed companies to sell kits.

Those mistakes can be easily designed out now through a variety of methods such as making the aircraft stable and reducing or eliminating very high thrustline offsets.

Even if you do sell a product and do not update it to remove these engineering oversights the very least you could do is to be HONEST.

Why don't they understand that the fatality rate hurts the hobby and thus hurts their business?

The RAF with one of the many inexpensive modifications to make it stable would be an EXCELLENT product and have a far greater chance of success and be a much stronger competitor.

What advantage do they think they will have by having to constantly spin and lie to their customers, fear lawsuits and suffer the highest fatality rate in the business?

Could it be they really drink their own koolaid?

Could it be they really don't understand the grade-school physics that applies to this engineering oversight?

We network engineers used to have a saying in our industry, a joke actually.

Q. What is the difference between a computer salesman and a used car salesman?

A. The used car salesman knows when he is lying to you.


Could it be that this joke also applies to the new RAF?

If NuRAF would just come out with a stable machine it would be a great advantage to the hobby as well as their own business!

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If they'd done the drop-keel mod like Larry B. and put a stab on it they'd have a much better product and they would also silence alot of the criticism. They had an opportunity to show people they were making changes to improve the design but it looks like they missed it.
 
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If they'd done the drop-keel mod like Larry B. and put a stab on it they'd have a much better product and they would also silence alot of the criticism. They had an opportunity to show people they were making changes to improve the design but it looks like they missed it.

All they would have to do is extend the keel and put a stab on it, market it as a 'higher performance' version and they would be well set. It might still have some touchy parts of the flight envelope but it would be such a vast improvement in safety.

Why are they let letting other people make all of the money with the stabiliy upgrades?

They should be cashing in with the 'official' factory stability enhancement devices!!!

Every single SparrowHawk sold is a customer RAF SHOULD have had!

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Insurance companies have written insurance policies on the RAF aircraft because of their extraordinary safety record and their exclusive use of Ask First Society flight instructors.
Well, i recon if your retarded enuff to swallow that line, you got real problems long before you step in a new RAF.

It dont even answer the question; Why isn't there insurance... ? :(
 
Since when have the lessons of history ever been learned.
 
HI Guy's

HI Guy's

Hope you all are well.

Thanks for the comments about our site. Like I said in a previous post. We are currently in the proses of setting up the new factory in SA. And as you all will know beeing worlds apart this is not a easy nor a overnight task to do.

To inform you all. There will be changes to the RAF to improve the gyro to suit all the needs everybody wants. But please guy's give us time to do this right from day one.

Hope you all fly save.

P.s Chuck E and Chuck B - I have made numrous attemts to contact you to discus some stuff with you in private. Do you have email address that I can email you.

Regards

SARAF
 
Seems fair. Looks as though there may have been a somewhat typicaly Pavlovian reaction to the RAF and the matter may well be being addressed.
 
Thanks Eben

Seems the two Chucks are doing their knee jerk reactions again. Those magical three Letters. You would think putting one business out would be enough. I know that my mod and H/S have made a tremendous improvement. The RAF as I have it is really a beautiful machine. Lots of power, looks, and tame as a kitten. Good Luck Eben
 
Fair go Thom, we wouldnt want to see a duplicate RAF do we?
I recon the SA blokes mite have abit more consience than the other mob. ;)
 
Looking into my crystal ball..... I believe SA RAF will still sell and push the RAF in the " stock " HTL and no stab arrangement. I believe that they will offer a horizontal stab as a option.

Chuck and Chuck, I have seen Eben post that he wants your email address or someway to talk in private to you two before. So to be fair, I think you either need to contact him, or not make comments. There is the slim chance he wants to do some chopped keel mods and seeks your help with the numbers - although I don't see where Chuck E would be of any help there....
 
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