The forum is in decline; why?

In the nine years I have been reading ...then contributing to this forum .... I have definitely seen many changes ...always been those friendly & not-so friendly debates & exchanges of hot-topic opinions! ( and yet when they gather at fly-ins ...all seem to be respectful & cordial - in person!)

There are a delightful diversity of truly knowledgeable old timers & newly minted "experts' ...who revealed their lack of deeper understanding pretty quickly.

Some characters love to get into heated opinion debates & discussions, while others watched from afar - quietly shaking their heads !

Some liked to be goofy & frivolous ...when their antics caused the serious to complain & moderators start banning ...a new alternate Rotary wing-lover forum with minimal "anything-goes rules" ...started up! ( I'm still amazed at the RWF population who cross over & lurk or participate "over there" too ...so it proved to be a valid supplement ..rather than a competitor!)

Over the past few years ... we have lost many of the posters who loved to share builds, adventures & experiences ...I among them! The new forum format change necessary by the hacker/security issues was a sad hinderance to many returning/relearning the new ways! We still lurk & check in ...weekly or monthly -:bored: or:frown::wacko: ... sigh
at the depleted quality & reduced civility ...in many posts that come down to a "battle of wills of a couple of argumentative pedantic "word-smith"s trying to be Alpha-dog! " ( or just have a severe communication impediment!!!???):confused::noidea:
....mildy amusing (at times) but derails & distracts from the original topic of the thread way too often!

I wonder if I just have reached a life point where I have less patience/tolerance ( grumpy old-fart syndrome) or getting smarter ....."just walk away!" (Don't engage /feed the trolls who thrive on drama!) ...much as I WANT to respond sometimes ...I say NO ...NOT GUNNA GET SUCKED IN !!!!

When I have something of major importance to communicate to the gyro world I will put it out there ...but as soon as "certain characters contaminate my thread" ...I'm OUT!:sorry:

For my adventures, event photos, fun gyro stuff ...you know where to find me on several Facebook gyro sites! I do see the general trend away from forums to social media! ( although both still have a valid role to play!)


So there is MY commentary on this topic!:usa2:
 
I am on the forum to learn and convey truth, not for "drama".
A troll, on the other hand, is somebody who would post on a Holocaust survivor forum that Hitler was "
misunderstood" and "not a bad man."

For some, mere disagreement constitutes "contamination" of "their" thread.
This is Aviation. Lives are more important than feelings.
Cowgirl Up, and defend your own brand.
 
Kolibri;n1143401 said:
HighAltitude, I don't care which gyro people fly, except that I hope it is a model without significant weaknesses.

You should have been here in the early 2000s when Chuck Ellsworth and several others were severely railing against RAF in Canada.
Because of those outspoken individuals, RAF owners became aware of many problems with their machines, and gradually abated them.
Imagine if Ellsworth et al never voiced strong contrary opinions, because Vance and others had bullied them into silence.

My recollection is that Chuck Ellsworth didn't like RAF a lot and took every opportunity to denigrate them; often for things unrelated to reality.

I don't recall RAF ever making a change because of Chuck.

He chased many RAF owners away from the Rotary Wing Forum so they missed the benefit of the more rational posters.

Even though he was knowledgeable his vitriol often made it appear as though it was a battle of insults rather than an informed discussion.
 
I have found the best way to "defend my brand" is to DO! Show it, adventure trips, share- fly people at fly-ins, demo @events, EAA gatherings , young Eagles...etc! ...Go do some epic Cross-country adventures ...2017 KS -FL and back, 3000Nm in SE Australia over 5 weeks, 5 days exploring the magic MOAB area, Fly out to El mirage from San Manuel AZ & back! I choose not to engage in futile word games with :drama: here!

I'll promote openness on safety issues & state the facts to the best of my information sources!

BTW ..whatever your "intent" ...drama seems to explode around your posts here!:eek::flame:
 
If I didn't care about your skin, I'd clam up about, for example, AutoGyro's mast and rotor blades.
You have carefully read the Cranfield University study of September 2010, haven't you?
("[/COLOR]Investigation of Crack in Gyroplane Main Rotor Blade")

Some of us realize that Tim has the new blade grips that are supposed to be good for 2,500 hours.

Some of us realize that the blades/mast of the MTO Sport hasn't hurt anyone and there are many more pressing safety issues with gyroplanes.

I feel there is value in good training and a culture of risk mitigation.

I feel that creating pretend safety issues detracts from making gyroplanes safer.

In my opinion pretending the rotor and mast on the MTO Sport is a safety hazard despite the thousands of trouble free flight hours hurts everyone involved with gyroplanes.
 
I'll promote openness on safety issues & state the facts to the best of my information sources!
Great, Chris, then please don't incorrectly paraphrase what the latest ASRA Safety Directive said.
The synonym of ASRA's "real possibility" is "could be" . . . not your "appears to be secondary".
This why ASRA has not lifted their previous grounding of two-piece masted TAGs.

You cannot defend your brand at fly-ins, etc. until its safety issues have been determined and fixed.
I actually do wish TAG success in that regard.
It grieves me that any gyro is grounded under a cloud of suspicion, or that my fellow gyronauts could be at risk.



___________
I don't recall RAF ever making a change because of Chuck.
I don't recall RAF ever making a safely change because of anyone.
But at least Chuck woke up a significant portion of RAF owners (and potential customers).


Some of us realize that Tim has the new blade grips that are supposed to be good for 2,500 hours.
At least one of us realizes that:
. . . the service life of AutoGyro's Rotor System 2 was deemed to be 2500 hours by an unspecified "university study".
. . . there is probably no RS2-equipped gyro with 2500 flight hours to prove the projection.
. . . the blade grips were not cracking in RS1. but the blades themselves.
. . . the blades in RS2 seem unchanged from those of RS1.
. . . RS2 blades tear off in crashes at the same outboard bolt hole where RS1 was cracking by 700 hours.

At least one of us would rather preemptively look into the matter before owners of RS2 approach a possible failure point.

At least one of us is urging a much more frequent owner inspection than every 100 hours of their RS2 blade bolt holes.



Some of us realize that the blades/mast of the MTO Sport hasn't hurt anyone and there are many more pressing safety issues with gyroplanes.
In your opinion, so go right on ahead and deal with those.

However, if I am subsequently correct about what could be a looming issue for literally hundreds of AutoGyros, then my efforts will have been worthwhile.
If RS2 is shown to make anywhere near 2500 hours without blade cracking, then you can call me "Chicken Little".
For the sake of the gyro community, I'll take that chance.

Regards,
Kolibri
 
Vance;n1143446 said:
Kolibri;n1143401 said:
HighAltitude, I don't care which gyro people fly, except that I hope it is a model without significant weaknesses.

You should have been here in the early 2000s when Chuck Ellsworth and several others were severely railing against RAF in Canada.
Because of those outspoken individuals, RAF owners became aware of many problems with their machines, and gradually abated them.
Imagine if Ellsworth et al never voiced strong contrary opinions, because Vance and others had bullied them into silence.

My recollection is that Chuck Ellsworth didn't like RAF a lot and took every opportunity to denigrate them; often for things unrelated to reality.

I don't recall RAF ever making a change because of Chuck.

He chased many RAF owners away from the Rotary Wing Forum so they missed the benefit of the more rational posters.

Even though he was knowledgeable his vitriol often made it appear as though it was a battle of insults rather than an informed discussion.




I'd like to share my opinion regarding Chuck Ellsworth. From my observations of his postings on the original RWF, CE was a sane voice of reason WRT how RAF-Canada was conducting their business of marketing their "Cross-Country Machine".

Chuck had decades of professional flight experience, most notably the PBY amphibian. IIRC, he was also a CFI as well as having numerous ratings. He could very well be called Mr. PBY in the aviation world, having flown them all around the world for business. Well-respected throughout aviation, but, not by the RAF manufacturing owners and CFIs associated w/ RAF after he went public with his findings.

With that in mind, he related to us of his experience in potentially working directly w/ RAF as their main flight instructor. He became aware of their business practices after he had purchased one of their RAF 2000 kits. He told us that Dan Haseloh was not truthful to Transport Canada about crashes they'd had and their qualifications as instructors.

This was the main reason Chuck abandoned his plans to work together w/ them to provide flight instruction: Their dishonesty to their own government's agency governing flight in Canadian airspace.

I believe he felt that once you discover a company lying about something, that you then can not trust anything that comes out of their mouths about all facets of their business. I feel that Chuck presented his case for this in a rational manner.

Chuck also was displeased w/ the lack of quality of the parts in his kit. He very likely also found out that the company was telling customers that the Subaru engines were rebuilt, when others later found out they were purchased from totaled vehicles that had been in a flood, and not rebuilt in any way. Kenny J. here on the forum found silt accumulated inside his engine's covers when he removed them.

A few people reported that the engines included in the kits were taken from a pile of them sitting outside their factory, exposed in the weather for who knows how long.

Probably the biggest topic that both Chuck E., as well as Chuck B., on this forum wrote about was the bunting over factor that RAFs had a high rate of doing, caused mainly by the high thrustline of a powerful engine's prop, and the lack of horizontal stabilizer. This was attacked relentlessly by almost exclusively RAF-dealers here in the US on this forum. The same argument was debated that experienced gyro pilots and instructors had no problem flying a RAF, so what's the big deal? Get enough instruction (they stated many times that 40-50 hours of dual was all that someone needed to properly learn how to fly a RAF), and you're good to go!

I remember thinking at that time (and still do believe this) that figure was excessive to learn how to fly a gyroplane. Many people receive half that amount and are considered competent by their CFIs enough that they are signed off for solo. Some folks even less dual than that half figure!

Chuck E. was a voice of reason, in my opinion. He was a very competent airplane pilot and instructor, who found that RAF's business practices and integrity severely lacking, and was bitterly fought by the RAF-pilot's instructor group as a heretic. They are all gone from our ears now. It is virtually a desert about them now. The only one we hear about is Dofin Fritts, in Alabama, who has had more than his share of FAA scrutiny, even suspension of his CFI credentials for a year by them. He also has an unusually high amount of dead students that he had taught to fly gyroplanes, compared to anyone else.

Now we have a forum member (Kolibri) who had purchased a RAF through the brokering of DF, who has documented the less-than-honest log book loggings by DF, as well as the poor aircraft quality of many of the RAF kit's parts. He has shared part numbers and manufacturers of better quality parts he has replaced on his machine (especially sturdier and better quality rod ends for the ever so important flight controls), where he now feels comfortable in flying his gyroplane.

He has been criticized (and I feel unjustly) for doing so, and been called names by RAF-adherents, something he has refrained from doing. Yet, even others don't like what he has to say simply because he is different in the way he writes on this forum. I suspect he has training in debate and law, possibly even being a lawyer. I also have noted that when others have debated him, he enjoys a good fight, and is able to respond logically where others can't, relying on emotions instead.

I have met Kolibri, and find him a highly intelligent person w/ varied interests and experience. He is not emotional in his conversations, and presents himself well. If anything, I would state he is exactly like anyone who is a fan of Star Trek would imagine Mr. Spock would be in real life: Competent, assured, intelligent, and possessing many qualities the rest of us wish we had. I do not understand the friction between him and Vance, another person I have met and seen many times.

Many RAF owners have converted their upper mast, rotorheads, and rotorblades to Sport Copter's products, and have been quite happy they'd done so. Even SparrowHawk kits used the SC components in their kits. That does say a lot of that conversion from RAF's original items they sold.

Some people on the gyro world are a bit off. Many attack others who try to warn about gyroplane safety by pointing out obvious discrepancies of inferior parts sold to consumers, or, when they warn of unethical dealings of manufacturers. Farmer Jim and Chris were criticized by some in this part of aviation when they had to sue the Butterfly gyroplane manufacturer over his failure to provide what they had paid him to do. Some gyro folks told them to just stop w/ all the bad-mouthing/complaining. His suicide just before their case came to be settled/decided says a lot to most people.

Ironic that the initials of "DF" applies to both Dennis Fetters and Dofin Fritts, both of whom have created lots of controversies in their time in the aviation field!
 
Kevin, thank you very much for taking the time to post such an overview, and for your kind comments about me.
I receive PMs of support fairly often, but your doing so publicly is especially meaningful.

Friendly regards,
Kolibri
 
WRT emotions entering into debates, I wanted to also mention that the late Dan Haseloh, of RAF-Canada, (who many considered to be a superb gyroplane pilot because of the ways he could make the RAF dart about, especially when landing it on a dime) was easily angered.

Relayed to me years ago by Jim Vanek, DH (who had a few beers in him by evening at one gyro event), got so upset w/ JV about their conversation about gyros, that he challenged Jim to a fist-fight right there in front of everyone gathered around.

Which, coincidentally, is almost the same scenario we had here on this forum last fall when Eddie in New Mexico (who owned and flew a RAF gyroplane) became enraged at whatever Kolibri has written that he challenged K. to a fist-fight, or even a gunfight.

K. informed him that he was competent in firearms, having taught law enforcement personal and others in firearm safety/instruction for 20+ years.

I don't believe Eddie replied to that and I saw no further words from him after that RE: his challenge.
Shortly thereafter, Eddie leaves us his parting words that Kolibri has driven everyone from this forum w/ his attacks, and that he was outta here.

A few short weeks later, we read that Eddie succumbed to injuries he sustained during a crash of a light airplane (Rans) he had just purchased @ the Soccoro, NM airport, hitting a parked helicopter and a light pole.

The same fate occurred to DH, passing away in a collision of two RAF gyroplanes involved in a video shoot.
 
Kevin, just to clarify a bit about the challenge between Eddie and I, he was implying (or very nearly so) that I was lying about the weight of my RAF's custom exhaust.
I warned that that I consider being called a liar as "fighting words", and if he so accused me, we could settle the matter in a boxing ring.
When somebody obviously brighter than I am gives me a cerebral takedown, I pay attention. When a dog or a man growls, I pay attention.
This didn't seem to be Eddie's philosophy, and he kept mouthing off in the strangest way, even mentioning a pistol duel.
His fatal plane crash was shortly after that, oddly.

My portal to gyros was through certified fixed-wing ASEL. I've often been perplexed by my experience here with some.
For example, I would never post somebody's "man-to-man" PM to me. Even nations at war retain back-channel communication.
That one person did so was not embarrassing to me, but to him.

I am not "conflict-adverse" but neither do I go about seeking conflict, either.
I've been explicitly trying since early January to either ignore ad hominem sneering or reply in a level tone.
What others do with that is on them.

Safe flying,
Kolibri
 
Social media have been usurping forum attendance in general; it's not just a Facebook vs. RWF thing.
Our problematic forum upgrade also certainly ham-strung things.

If some people want to ascribe the rest to my 0.85 posts/day, well, that's their prerogative.
 
Jason is on to something. The User Interface for the current forum is primitive. Kinda like DOS vs Windows. Stuck in a rut, maybe?
Need better software for sure. But, then again what is the "pull". There needs to be Pinterest moments. Lots of visuals. Excitement...

The bigger problem, is who wants to set it up and keep an eye on it. What is the reward? Answer that question and you are on to something.
 
Better visual management for sure. For compelling content, how about an "Ask GyroJake" answer column.
To cover an administrator's time and toil could be paid for by offering uniquely desirable products. Plus ads and affiliations. Does a Buy-Sell function (ie.: Flea Market) exist on this forum. I haven't found it yet.

There are operators that use Bots to scour eBay for certain items to package and post for their own audience.

Did anybody else see the movie about the creation of FaceBook. Do you remember the part where Zuck is in the dorm and marking on paper taped to the computer screens. Here was organic analog before it became digital. The PalmPilot interface was done the same way. It was first designed on paper that was taped to a wood block mock-up.

It might be the reason that FaceBook killed MySpace.
 
DoPigsFly;n1143589 said:
...Does a Buy-Sell function (ie.: Flea Market) exist on this forum. I haven't found it yet...

Scroll way down on the Forums page here. Just above the PRA stuff @ the bottom, you'll find the Swap Meet section for Buy/Sell items.
 
Thanks: Found it.
I would have to agree, that this software is a bit old school. There is Social Network software that does what FaceBook does (such as Dolphin,and others). The biggest problem I found was being inundated by Chinese Spammers. I understand that FaceBook has an army of programmers that act as a human real-time spam filter to block their army of spammers.
 
gyrodude;n1143363 said:
I got into the sport about 20yrs ago and got to meet a good number of the pioneers of the sport at bensen days and mentone. Everyone was made to feel welcome and encouraged to become a part of the gyro family and that was what it was a family affair. A trip to Wachula from NC cost me about $1000 but it was money well spent. Now if you don't show up in a half million dollar motor coach pulling a toy hauler with a hundred thousand dollar gyro and Harley then you are not part of the in crowd. I quit coming as its just not worth it anymore. I have fond memories of buzzing the cow pastures down there and still fly but not interested in the flyins here or Wachula or Mentone.

Not interested in the fly-in's here...as in NC??? GA??? Barry Kroplin is hosting his much-anticipated Spring Fling May 16-18 at Waco, NC. It is a place where anyone and everyone is made to feel welcome by a most friendly bunch, and the kinds of things that hurt Mentone and Bensen Days just does not exist. Barry has one rule, "NO DRAMA ALLOWED", and that's just the way it is. That attitude has been picked up by all of the SE rotorcraft enthusiasts and carries over to blanket the early fall event at Wrens, GA as well - an event which has become one of the dominant gyro flings in the country thanks, to this happy bunch.

If you aren't interested in attending an event at Waco, NC, or the larger Wrens, GA fall fly-in, oh well, that's on you. But I'd like to invite you to check it out, you'll enjoy yourself.
 
A wise man once said, "A friend is someone who knows what you are and likes you in spite of it."

Apart from the problem this community faces with the crap format of this website, the only way this group will grow and thrive is (1) Friendship (2) Truth (3) Tolerance (4) Gyroplanes (5) Vigilance.

Ya'll gotta be friends on here. Ya gotta keep the truth, simple as that. Gotta be tolerant of others, we can't all be like you - perfect and radiant. Keep your chatter on topic, remember why you came here and leave your politics & religion out of it. Finally, the moderators need to keep vigilant and delete what's not in keeping with these tenets.
 
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