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  • Originally posted by Kolibri View Post
    Heh, just as RAF did with their 200 hour and 500 hour hub bars.


    The best solution is to have understood gyro flight stresses on the rotor system, and correctly designed something safe/long-lasting from the start.
    AG did not do so. Their MTO3 was essentially an ELA clone, and they seemed to have learned little subsequently about rotor design.

    I would not reflexively trust a company's Rotor System 2 after they'd made such ill-advisedly stiff hub barred Rotor System 1.

    If I were an AG owner or potential customer, I'd very carefully study the university report that AG commissioned,
    and decide for myself if Rotor System 2 would likely see an untroubled 2500 hours as claimed.
    (That report has not been easy to locate. Anybody have a link to it?)


    Regards,
    Kolibri[/COLOR]

    In my opinion not all gyroplane companies have the same engineering and management philosophies.

    Someone who lacks technical sophistication purchased an RAF 2000 without learning about it first and was disappointed when it did not live up to his fantasies so now he hates everything about RAF and whines to the world. The historical context of RAF seems to elude him as does his role in his unhappy gyroplane experience.

    It appears that his hatred and distrust is spilling over on to AutoGyro GMBH and ELA.

    RAF didn't have any RAF pitch a blade in the USA. There is some question about the history of the blades on the non RAF trainer that broke the bolt on the hub bar.

    In my opinion the MTO is not a clone of anything and the Calidus is very different from an MTO and the Cavalon is a further departure.

    In my opinion each of the currently available gyroplanes have unique features and benefits.

    Having a rotor on the top, a simple frame and a pusher configuration does not make something a clone of all other gyroplanes.

    My hope is that the gyroplane community will recognize the ravings of someone who is not technically astute and continue to purchase and enjoy gyroplanes.

    Tim is a graduated from Cal Poly engineering and looked at all the gyroplanes carefully before purchasing a new MTO Sport kit despite all the negativity he found on the Rotary Wing Forum.
    Regards, Vance Breese Gyroplane CFI http://www.breeseaircraft.com/

    Comment




    • (Someone who lacks technical sophistication purchased an RAF 2000 without learning about it first and was disappointed when it did not live up to his fantasies so now he hates everything about RAF and whines to the world. The historical context of RAF seems to elude him as does his role in his unhappy gyroplane experience.

      It appears that his hatred and distrust is spilling over on to AutoGyro GMBH and ELA.

      My hope is that the gyroplane community will recognize the ravings of someone who is not technically astute and continue to purchase and enjoy gyroplanes.)



      Vance he is very easy to figure out,I believe the people new and old to this forum are more than intelligent enough to just look at his ravings and rants

      and realize that he knows nothing of which the is talking about . Even his entertainment value is starting to get really old and repetitive.




      Best Regards,
      Eddie Sigman,Polvadera,nm
      (575) 835-4921

      Comment


      • Looks to me like Greg is not so unsung if you who have never even met him or even talked to him on the phone (right) but have somehow heard about his engineering design abilities.
        I had heard about his design work behind the scenes, fara, although not from you.
        Beyond his gyro training you seem to rarely mention him, hence my "unsung" moniker.
        (Search your own posts for his name if you think I'm being unfair on this point.)


        I didn't "start" all this in the thread. Post #2 was your Tomgyro within 3 hours counseling JJ Campbell against a Calidus for an AR-1C.
        Only a week later did I begin to post here.

        I wish you well with Silverlight.



        ____________
        Vance, unless you are qualified to practice licensed psychiatry, you should probably curb your usage of such terms
        as "paranoid" and "fantasies" and "delusional" and "hatred" and "ravings". You haven't the right to so "diagnose" somebody you've never met.
        I've not slathered your towering narcissism with some very obvious and fitting labels, so spare me yours.

        The stock RAF is a lousy gyro, and very little about it was done right and well. I understood only about half of that going into it.
        Nearly every RAF owner has been obliged to modify or replace components for increased performance and safety.
        With considerable effort and money, however, they can be transformed into at least a decent gryo. I know, because I've done so.

        As far forum "negativity" goes, I wouldn't try to run off contrarians who harp on safety because their critical eye can improve design and save lives.

        You are "Mediocrity's Apologist". RAFSA is safe with you. Dofin "Cofin" Fritts is safe with you. ELA is safe with you.
        Low-time crack-prone rotor systems are safe with you. Until the countryside is dotted with failed gyros, you're not likely to pipe up.

        Somebody has to counter-weight that. Then readers have alternative sides of an issue, and can weigh it for themselves.

        Regards,
        Kolibri


        PP - ASEL complex (Piper 180, C206, RV-7A), SP - Gyro (Calidus, RAF, SC2), soloed in gliders; checkride soon

        Wasn't happy with my RAF's pitch instability, so I installed a Boyer H-Stab to my great satisfaction!

        "
        When an honest but mistaken man learns of his error, he either ceases to be mistaken -- or he ceases to be honest."

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Kolibri View Post
          ...Then readers have alternative sides of an issue, and can weigh it for themselves.
          Didn't they try that in the classroom with "Intelligent Design"?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Kolibri View Post


            ____________
            Vance, unless you are qualified to practice licensed psychiatry, you should probably curb your usage of such terms
            as "paranoid" and "fantasies" and "delusional" and "hatred" and "ravings". You haven't the right to so "diagnose" somebody you've never met.
            I've not slathered your towering narcissism with some very obvious and fitting labels, so spare me yours.

            The stock RAF is a lousy gyro, and very little about it was done right and well. I understood only about half of that going into it.
            Nearly every RAF owner has been obliged to modify or replace components for increased performance and safety.
            With considerable effort and money, however, they can be transformed into at least a decent gryo. I know, because I've done so.

            As far forum "negativity" goes, I wouldn't try to run off contrarians who harp on safety because their critical eye can improve design and save lives.

            You are "Mediocrity's Apologist". RAFSA is safe with you. Dofin "Cofin" Fritts is safe with you. ELA is safe with you.
            Low-time crack-prone rotor systems are safe with you. Until the countryside is dotted with failed gyros, you're not likely to pipe up.

            Somebody has to counter-weight that. Then readers have alternative sides of an issue, and can weigh it for themselves.

            Regards,
            Kolibri

            I don't pretend to be a qualified phycologist and try to use common terms to describe the content of posts. I feel most of the participants on the Rotary Wing Forum understand the meaning of the words; anyone who doesn't can Google them. I don't need to meet someone to read and understand their posts.

            In my opinion Kolibri doesn't address safety and his unfounded rants detract from the real safety issues. Focusing on something that happened to a particular gyroplane and pretending all gyroplanes have this problem is patently absurd.

            I feel gyroplane safety can be better addressed by focusing on training and preflight.

            In my opinion RAF South Africa has achieved a remarkable safety record with their focus on training.

            I have never endorsed Dofin Fritts and only flew with him once. I didn't like his training style or the condition of his aircraft.

            It doesn't take a lot of digging to see that some of the accidents Kolibri attributes to him are not his fault. If someone doesn't maintain their aircraft or goes directly against their CFIs instructions there is little a CFI can do. Dofin Fritts is a busy instructor teaching in a challenging aircraft. He is bound to show up as the flight instructor more often in RAF accidents.

            It is my observation that many RAF owners are like Kolibri and want to spend the minimum amount of time (money) training and the minimum amount of time on preflight. It may be because an RAF 2000 is the lowest price two place, side by side gyroplane available so it attracts people wanting to spend the minimum amount of money. It doesn't seem to occur to them that there may be a reason for the low price. There are many people who have a successful relationship with their RAF because they spend the time and money required for aviation safety.

            I have not flown an ELA. I feel they had and may still have some quality control issues. I don't have enough information to have an opinion on their design. I would fly an ELA after a careful preflight.

            I am not in a position to apologize for anyone. I am familiar with the challenges of small business and the difficulties of short run manufacturing.

            I feel anyone flying an experimental aircraft needs to learn as much as possible and apply that knowledge every time they fly to mitigate risk.

            That requires weather briefings, preflight inspections and recurrent training.

            FAR 91.3: The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
            Last edited by Vance; 09-14-2018, 11:45 AM.
            Regards, Vance Breese Gyroplane CFI http://www.breeseaircraft.com/

            Comment


            • Originally posted by eddie View Post

              (Someone who lacks technical sophistication purchased an RAF 2000 without learning about it first and was disappointed when it did not live up to his fantasies so now he hates everything about RAF and whines to the world. The historical context of RAF seems to elude him as does his role in his unhappy gyroplane experience.

              It appears that his hatred and distrust is spilling over on to AutoGyro GMBH and ELA.

              My hope is that the gyroplane community will recognize the ravings of someone who is not technically astute and continue to purchase and enjoy gyroplanes.)



              Vance he is very easy to figure out,I believe the people new and old to this forum are more than intelligent enough to just look at his ravings and rants

              and realize that he knows nothing of which the is talking about . Even his entertainment value is starting to get really old and repetitive.



              I hope you are correct Eddie.

              I have had more than one client ask about Kolibri's dire predictions as though they had validity.

              One client was feeling buyer's remorse about his RAF 2000 because of all the negative posts from Kolibri about RAFs.

              Fortunately he is an airframe and powerplant mechanic by trade and as we reviewed the posts that concerned him he recognized the pattern of ignorance and drama and he again loves and enjoys his RAF.

              As he put it; "Every time Kolibri posted about something I am familiar with; I could see it was all just fantasy and drama."
              Regards, Vance Breese Gyroplane CFI http://www.breeseaircraft.com/

              Comment


              • Yes Vance a Sows ear (RAF2000)can be turned into a Silk purse (really good Gyro) all it takes is good aviation knowledge and not as much money as you think.

                But you don't start by replacing aluninium parts with 4130 steel which is 3 times heavier,if weight isn't important as some forum members think, then you could

                use a buick as the basis for your cabin,use a cummins diesel as the engine, make your rotor system from tool steel and really be safe.

                And have a Chuck Beaty Dreadnought class Gyro.
                Last edited by eddie; 09-14-2018, 12:32 PM.
                Best Regards,
                Eddie Sigman,Polvadera,nm
                (575) 835-4921

                Comment


                • Here's an example of Vance's Mediocrity's apologism:

                  As far as I know there hasn't been any AutoGyro GMBH blades fail in flight anywhere in the world . . .
                  I give AutoGyro credit for addressing a potential problem before someone was injured.
                  And here was AG's way of "addressing a potential problem":

                  AutoGyro Service Bulletin 04/2010

                  Activated by the airworthiness bulletin regarding the Aircopter rotor systems, spot tests have shown that there can occur cracks or abnormal bending at the fixation of the rotor blade.

                  As the cause is not clear at this point (we assume it is caused by extreme maneuvers), a check of all rotor systems is necessary.

                  The rotor system of the manufacturer AutoGyro is not airworthy when cracks are showing on the rotor blades.
                  This has to be determined by a visual check
                  [after removing blades from the hub bar] concerning cracks and measuring of the straight‐line characteristics.

                  All rotor systems with more than 200 operation hours have to be checked before the next flight.
                  Just like RAF, AutoGyro didn't suspect their own engineering, but instead blamed the owners for the cracks.

                  And how often were the owners to remove their blades for inspection? Before every flight, if the gyro had more than 200 hours.
                  That must have been fun for pre-flight:


                  4. Dismount rotor system (according flight manual 4.21)

                  5. For dismounting the rotor system remove 6 or 9 screws (depending on your rotor system)

                  6. Dismount blades from hub

                  7. Clean blades in the fixing area thoroughly

                  8. Check all bore holes visually on cracks (specially the outer bore hole)

                  9. Check of straight alignment: align steel ruler (1000mm) from the inside of the blade directly next to the bore holes of the fixation.

                  10. If there is a crack or a bending (more than 0,5mm) showing, the rotor system is not airworthy anymore and has to be sent to the manufacturer
                  AutoGyro

                  11. If there are no cracks or bending, the rotor system can be assembled (according to flight manual 4.21) and can be used as usual


                  The British CAA got involved in August 2010 with MPD 2010-008 R1, and then again on 12 July 2011 with Emergency MPD 2011-006-E
                  which timed out Rotor System 1 past 700 hours. Only then -- not in 2010 -- did AG come out with Rotor System 2.
                  So, no, I don't trust their design acumen.

                  For me, a gyro mfg. must get all the flight-critical components right, the first time. How is this even controversial?
                  Blades cracking after 200 hours and non-airworthy by 700 because of a stupidly rigid hub bar is not acceptable to me.
                  But if an Ag Engineer who flies an Ercoupe wants an MTOsport 2017, that's his choice.



                  It doesn't take a lot of digging to see that some of the accidents Kolibri attributes to him are not his fault. If someone doesn't maintain their aircraft or goes directly against their CFIs instructions there is little a CFI can do. Dofin Fritts is a busy instructor teaching in a challenging aircraft. He is bound to show up as the flight instructor more often in RAF accidents.
                  Just amazing. Two people died in a Gulf Coast rust-bucket N5002E, an RAF which Dofin Fritts brokered weeks earlier with a pencil-whipped maintenance log.
                  The already cracked control rod end was so corroded that it looked like a Civil War battlefield bullet. So don't lecture me about my allegedly skimpy RAF pre-flighting.
                  Fritts and the seller are, in my opinion, guilty of Fraud for misrepresenting N5002E as currently serviced and airworthy.
                  It was neither, and I've seen the wreckage to know.



                  One client was feeling buyer's remorse about his RAF 2000 because of all the negative posts from Kolibri about RAFs.

                  Fortunately he is an airframe and powerplant mechanic by trade and as we reviewed the posts that concerned him he recognized the pattern of ignorance and drama and he again loves and enjoys his RAF.

                  As he put it; "Every time Kolibri posted about something I am familiar with; I could see it was all just fantasy and drama."
                  Then he can post here himself for a proper dialogue.
                  You've dismissed or minimized all sort of safety issues, and even Mike G on the ELA tail boom thread pointed you out as part of that syndrome.
                  What your client needs to do is stop whistling past the RAF graveyard unless he's abated its issues.


                  ____________

                  Yes Vance a Sows ear (RAF2000)can be turned into a Silk purse (really good Gyro) all it takes is good aviation knowledge and not as much money as you think.
                  Yes, eddie, it doesn't require as much money because you're too cheap to spend even $8 per new Aurora control rod end.
                  You nearly never replaced your crack-prone <2004 hub bar even though it was 150+ hours past RAF's own "get rid of it" schedule.
                  You've also cobbed up every new rotor system you've installed (Sport Rotors and then GyroTech), as well as not maintaining the OEM RAF rotorhead.
                  Yet you sneer at what you imagine are my maintenance shortcomings. Glass houses, dude.

                  ____________
                  Some people here imagine that I am the only negative poster about RAF.
                  Many have preceded me; I'm only the most recent (and in some ways the most thorough).

                  I really don't care what folks fly, as long as it's not a low-time toy that hides its fragility.

                  Safe flying,
                  Kolibri









                  Last edited by Kolibri; 09-14-2018, 01:22 PM.
                  PP - ASEL complex (Piper 180, C206, RV-7A), SP - Gyro (Calidus, RAF, SC2), soloed in gliders; checkride soon

                  Wasn't happy with my RAF's pitch instability, so I installed a Boyer H-Stab to my great satisfaction!

                  "
                  When an honest but mistaken man learns of his error, he either ceases to be mistaken -- or he ceases to be honest."

                  Comment


                  • kolibri who are you to tell me what to do your not my keeper,your an idiot .

                    there are a lot of people who are still flying the stock RAF blades without incident,

                    and my rod ends are just fine.

                    So please shut up about the rod ends and rotor system.

                    I tell you what why don't we have a contest and see which RAF performs the best,

                    my cobbed up machine against your perfect overweight,underpowerd piece of crap rust bucket special.
                    Best Regards,
                    Eddie Sigman,Polvadera,nm
                    (575) 835-4921

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Kolibri View Post
                      Here's an example of Vance's Mediocrity's apologism:


                      And here was AG's way of "addressing a potential problem":


                      Just like RAF, AutoGyro didn't suspect their own engineering, but instead blamed the owners for the cracks.

                      And how often were the owners to remove their blades for inspection? Before every flight, if the gyro had more than 200 hours.
                      That must have been fun for pre-flight:




                      The British CAA got involved in August 2010 with MPD 2010-008 R1, and then again on 12 July 2011 with Emergency MPD 2011-006-E
                      which timed out Rotor System 1 past 700 hours. Only then -- not in 2010 -- did AG come out with Rotor System 2.
                      So, no, I don't trust their design acumen.

                      For me, a gyro mfg. must get all the flight-critical components right, the first time. How is this even controversial?
                      Blades cracking after 200 hours and non-airworthy by 700 because of a stupidly rigid hub bar is not acceptable to me.
                      But if an Ag Engineer who flies an Ercoupe wants an MTOsport 2017, that's his choice.




                      Just amazing. Two people died in a Gulf Coast rust-bucket N5002E, an RAF which Dofin Fritts brokered weeks earlier with a pencil-whipped maintenance log.
                      The already cracked control rod end was so corroded that it looked like a Civil War battlefield bullet. So don't lecture me about my allegedly skimpy RAF pre-flighting.
                      Fritts and the seller are, in my opinion, guilty of Fraud for misrepresenting N5002E as currently serviced and airworthy.
                      It was neither, and I've seen the wreckage to know.


                      Some people here imagine that I am the only negative poster about RAF.
                      Many have preceded me; I'm only the most recent (and in some ways the most thorough).

                      I really don't care what folks fly, as long as it's not a low-time toy that hides its fragility.

                      Safe flying,
                      Kolibri[/COLOR]
                      It takes time to design, test and manufacture a new rotor system. I suspect from the finding of the first cracks AutoGyro was working diligently to resolve the issue.

                      N5002E was piloted by a private pilot single engine land pilot with no gyroplane endorsement. In my opinion if he had done a simple preflight he should have grounded the aircraft as not airworthy if it is as you describe just as I suggested you ground your RAF with its leaking fuel tank.

                      I agree that an improperly performed and documented annual condition inspection is unacceptable and feel a thorough preflight is important.

                      I don't recall ever writing about Dofin Fritts as an aircraft broker. Please try to stay on track.

                      To suggest I have defended him as a flight instructor is misinterpreting my posts. I just have not joined you in your condemnation of Dofin Fritts as a CFI for things beyond his control.

                      I am consistent in reminding pilots that: The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.

                      You are not the first to condemn the RAF 2000 Kolibri and not the first to inject pointless drama on the Rotary Wing Forum. I suspect you won,t be the last.

                      I agree with some of your suggestions on improving the RAF 2000 and recommended that my client purchase a horizontal stabilizer from Larry Boyer because I felt the one he had was not doing the job. I have been friends with Larry for a long time and was already familiar with the product. If anything your recommendation made me question my recommendation. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

                      I don't understand the way your present things or the way you attack anyone who doesn't see the world through your eyes.

                      Your idea of "proof" is so often unrelated to the discussion at hand and often in my opinion unrelated to reality.
                      Last edited by Vance; 09-15-2018, 06:22 AM.
                      Regards, Vance Breese Gyroplane CFI http://www.breeseaircraft.com/

                      Comment


                      • Crass
                        adjective
                        adjective: crass; comparative adjective: crasser; superlative adjective: crassest
                        1. lacking sensitivity, refinement, or intelligence.
                          "the crass assumptions that men make about women"
                          synonyms: stupid, insensitive, mindless, thoughtless, ignorant, witless, oafish, boorish, asinine, coarse, gross, graceless, tasteless, tactless, clumsy, heavy-handed, blundering


                        Wow, now I'm somehow foolish because I ordered a MTO? What does "a Cal Poly AG engineer that flys and Ercoupe" have to do with anything? Kolibri's crass behavior is really sad. So what id my blades are only good for 700 hundred hours. Why is that a concern of kolibri?

                        Life throws us all curve balls now and then and I recently sold my kitfox and my properties in the Lake Tahoe area to move to a warmer climate to support a family member's terminal medical condition. I couldn't care less if the blades, the frame, or the engine are all junk after 700 hours of flying. Yes kolibri is crass and I feel sorry for him. His purchase criteria is not the same as mine. I would never ride in or by a RAF but I don't belittle him for his purchase decision. Crass, yep it fits.

                        If my MTO blades start cracking or if I am upset with anything else on the MTO I will certainly not come here and cry like a baby. I did my due diligence and chose between the AR-1, the Titanium Explorer, and the MTO. All three machines are very good quality.

                        Kolibri is such a goof that he can't fathom pilots operating on rough strips or pulling a lot of G's to crack the rotors. It's common knowledge and in the AutoGyro POH. IF they say it was pilot error, I'm OK with it. I don't even have my gyro endorsement yet and I know that taxiing at high speeds or on rough surfaces puts more stress on the rotor blades than flight.

                        Anyone who reads anything from Kolibri will obviously figure it out and smell the bs. I could even go so far to say I gave a closer look at the MTO because of Kolibri. If Kolibri hates it, it MUST be good. Like the kids say - LOL.

                        I want to thank every CFI here. In my years of flying with several CFI's not ONE has ever said anything negative about any brand of FW or gyro to me. There must be a CFI code that you all swear to. Hats off the every one of you. I couldn't do it. I would worry about every one of my students forever.
                        Last edited by HighAltitude; 09-14-2018, 04:04 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by HighAltitude View Post
                          Crass
                          adjective
                          adjective: crass; comparative adjective: crasser; superlative adjective: crassest
                          1. lacking sensitivity, refinement, or intelligence.
                            "the crass assumptions that men make about women"
                            synonyms: stupid, insensitive, mindless, thoughtless, ignorant, witless, oafish, boorish, asinine, coarse, gross, graceless, tasteless, tactless, clumsy, heavy-handed, blundering


                          Wow, now I'm somehow foolish because I ordered a MTO? What does "a Cal Poly AG engineer that flys and Ercoupe" have to do with anything? Kolibri's crass behavior is really sad. So what id my blades are only good for 700 hundred hours. Why is that a concern of kolibri?

                          Life throws us all curve balls now and then and I recently sold my kitfox and my properties in the Lake Tahoe area to move to a warmer climate to support a family member's terminal medical condition. I couldn't care less if the blades, the frame, or the engine are all junk after 700 hours of flying. Yes kolibri is crass and I feel sorry for him. His purchase criteria is not the same as mine. I would never ride in or by a RAF but I don't belittle him for his purchase decision. Crass, yep it fits.

                          If my MTO blades start cracking or if I am upset with anything else on the MTO I will certainly not come here and cry like a baby. I did my due diligence and chose between the AR-1, the Titanium Explorer, and the MTO. All three machines are very good quality.

                          Kolibri is such a goof that he can't fathom pilots operating on rough strips or pulling a lot of G's to crack the rotors. It's common knowledge and in the AutoGyro POH. IF they say it was pilot error, I'm OK with it. I don't even have my gyro endorsement yet and I know that taxiing at high speeds or on rough surfaces puts more stress on the rotor blades than flight.

                          Anyone who reads anything from Kolibri will obviously figure it out and smell the bs. I could even go so far to say I gave a closer look at the MTO because of Kolibri. If Kolibri hates it, it MUST be good. Like the kids say - LOL.

                          I want to thank every CFI here. In my years of flying with several CFI's not ONE has ever said anything negative about any brand of FW or gyro to me. There must be a CFI code that you all swear to. Hats off the every one of you. I couldn't do it. I would worry about every one of my students forever.
                          You will love your MTO!!!! The point is there are a whole bunch of great gyros out there, AG, Sportcopter, AR-1, Titanium, Magni. Of course there are all the other great homebuilts like Dominators etc, if one is so inclined. Take care of them, and they will take care of you. And yes you will get way beyond 700 hours (should we all live long enough) in an MTO if you look after it. There are well-maintained MTO's with well over 1000 hours out there. On the other hand, a friend of ours, who has sadly now passed, beat the hell out of his MTO as he flew and trailered it around the country on his last hurrah before he passed away, and he did not give a damn that it would be beat up before 500 hours. And yes, like any aircraft, it will be something to throw money at replacing parts over the years. It's a frikkin aircraft!!!!! Congratulations on your decision, enjoy.
                          Last edited by loftus; 09-14-2018, 04:38 PM.

                          Comment


                          • kolibri who are you to tell me what to do your not my keeper,your an idiot .
                            Sorry, eddie, but this was a perfect fit:


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                            ___________
                            N5002E was piloted by a private pilot single engine land pilot with no gyroplane endorsement.
                            Vance, his CFI told him that he could begin his solo practice flying.
                            Besides, N5002E crashed due to mechanical failure, not pilot error (beyond, that is, having mistakenly trusted Dofin Fritts).


                            In my opinion if he had done a simple preflight he should have grounded the aircraft as not airworthy if it is as you describe
                            What about the preflights done by CFI Fritts while training his student (who is not PIC)?
                            Please stop handing out hall passes.


                            It takes time to design, test and manufacture a new rotor system. I suspect from the finding of the first cracks AutoGyro was working diligently to resolve the issue.
                            "Suspect" all you wish; you just don't know for a fact, do you?
                            It'd be nice if some companies would stop using their customers as test pilots, and then blaming them for botched designs/materials:



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                            _________
                            Wow, now I'm somehow foolish because I ordered a MTO?
                            HighAltitude, I never used that word, and it was crass of you to falsely allege that I did. I merely wrote that it was your choice.

                            Kolibri is such a goof that he can't fathom pilots operating on rough strips or pulling a lot of G's to crack the rotors.
                            If that is why you think AG's blades cracked, then you really don't understand.

                            I fly a rotor system that is nearly indifferent to rough fields or hard flying. <grin>


                            In my years of flying with several CFI's not ONE has ever said anything negative about any brand of FW or gyro to me.
                            There must be a CFI code that you all swear to.
                            Wow, now there's a scary thought.


                            _________
                            The point is there are a whole bunch of great gyros out there, AG, Sportcopter, AR-1, Titanium, Magni.
                            But not ELA? <wink>

                            Take care of them, and they will take care of you.
                            No, loftus, not necessarily. That's been my overall point the entire time.


                            _________
                            Too bad there's not an Instrument rating for Sport Class, because some of you would already qualify with the blindfolds you've been wearing.
                            Look, I've made my case for caution and lots of preliminary research.
                            Y'all go fly and buy whatever. Good luck.

                            Regards,
                            Kolibri
                            PP - ASEL complex (Piper 180, C206, RV-7A), SP - Gyro (Calidus, RAF, SC2), soloed in gliders; checkride soon

                            Wasn't happy with my RAF's pitch instability, so I installed a Boyer H-Stab to my great satisfaction!

                            "
                            When an honest but mistaken man learns of his error, he either ceases to be mistaken -- or he ceases to be honest."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Kolibri View Post


                              _________

                              But not ELA? <wink>


                              No, loftus, not necessarily. That's been my overall point the entire time.


                              _________
                              Really my post is addressed to High Altitude. I'm really not interested in otherwise participating in this discussion. So again I say congrats to him on his choice. I'll stick to my assertion - if High Altitude takes care of his MTO, I'm pretty certain it will take care of him, and he will have a blast with his machine. As I said, there are MTO's with over 1000 hours out there, there are MTO's that have flown around the world and across the US, Africa and Australia (and ELA's for that matter that have flown across Africa that I am aware of). In fact ELA, Magni and AG machines have some pretty impressive transcontinental and endurance achievements. None of this is to take away from the machine that Kolibri loves, Sportcopter, which I am sure could do the same, as could AR and Titanium. I am just not personally aware of endurance type events publicized for these machines, except Titanium in Australia possibly. This is also not to say that there have never been problems, whether with the Rotax powerplants, accessories, or frames and blades. I also cannot comment on whether ELA particularly has some recent quality control issues. But nevertheless my emphasis is on the MTO that High Altitude has bought. I'll stick to my guns, well taken care of, with attention to preflight, routine maintenance, manufacturer advisories, flying them according to their characteristics and within their limits etc, all of these gyros, and the MTO in particular, will serve their owners well. High Altitude, just like all the BS in our political climate, turn all the BS off on this thread and enjoy your new toy.
                              Last edited by loftus; 09-15-2018, 04:10 PM.

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                              • Originally posted by Kolibri View Post
                                Sorry, eddie, but this was a perfect fit:

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                                Vance, his CFI told him that he could begin his solo practice flying.
                                Besides, N5002E crashed due to mechanical failure, not pilot error (beyond, that is, having mistakenly trusted Dofin Fritts).



                                What about the preflights done by CFI Fritts while training his student (who is not PIC)?
                                Please stop handing out hall passes.



                                "Suspect" all you wish; you just don't know for a fact, do you?
                                It'd be nice if some companies would stop using their customers as test pilots, and then blaming them for botched designs/materials:


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                                HighAltitude, I never used that word, and it was crass of you to falsely allege that I did. I merely wrote that it was your choice.


                                If that is why you think AG's blades cracked, then you really don't understand.

                                I fly a rotor system that is nearly indifferent to rough fields or hard flying. <grin>



                                Wow, now there's a scary thought.


                                _________

                                But not ELA? <wink>


                                No, loftus, not necessarily. That's been my overall point the entire time.


                                _________
                                Too bad there's not an Instrument rating for Sport Class, because some of you would already qualify with the blindfolds you've been wearing.
                                Look, I've made my case for caution and lots of preliminary research.
                                Y'all go fly and buy whatever. Good luck.

                                Regards,
                                Kolibri
                                In my opinion the management of RAF is in no way related to AutoGyro GMBH or ELA simply because they all build kits for experimental gyroplanes.

                                There is no substitute for field testing so the customer will always be testing a product. It is not a controlled test so the tester will always be suspect.

                                In my opinion to expect a new design to be perfect from the start is unrealistic and childish.

                                N5002E spent some time in the water so I would expect corrosion.

                                Dofin Fritts as a CFI does not appear to me to have much involvement in this tragedy.

                                I don't know enough about Dofin's role as a broker to have opined about that. I have not seen the aircraft or inspected the log books.

                                The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.

                                I don't expect Kolibri to change his mind about me, Dofin, Eddie, Tim, Abid, metric hardware, stainless steel masts, rotor blades, RAF, ELA, and AutoGyro. I do expect him to continue to pontificate about things he knows little about and attack anyone who questions his conclusions.

                                For me he has lost even his entertainment value.
                                Last edited by Vance; 09-16-2018, 07:25 AM.
                                Regards, Vance Breese Gyroplane CFI http://www.breeseaircraft.com/

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