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Bush Wheels / Baloon Tires ? Off Airport

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  • Bush Wheels / Baloon Tires ? Off Airport

    Is anyone running oversize tires for gravelbar or beach landing on the MTO or M 16 for STOL operations?

  • #2
    Here are a naked MTO and a Calidus both on tundra wheels. Ca. 15 mph less cruise, less ROC, much better for sand beach, not that much for gravel. Longitudal stability is affected (tundra wheels are heavier that regular ones thus CG lowered, CD also lowered).

    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by twistair; 10-05-2017, 01:16 PM.
    Alex Lameko
    Russian gyroforum
    Visit my collection of gyro videos

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    • #3
      less ROC?????????????

      CD also lowered??????? Love these guessing games.............

      But I get it now. If the more experienced pilots really gave a **** about gaining and keeping new members, they'd spell out these acronyms.

      Its really all about the status of knowing so many of these acronyms, isn't it. I'm an eighth grader, an' you're a sixth grader, nah, nah.
      Regards

      Frank

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      • #4
        Originally posted by eutrophicated1 View Post
        less ROC?????????????

        CD also lowered??????? Love these guessing games.............

        But I get it now. If the more experienced pilots really gave a **** about gaining and keeping new members, they'd spell out these acronyms.

        Its really all about the status of knowing so many of these acronyms, isn't it. I'm an eighth grader, an' you're a sixth grader, nah, nah.
        CD = Center of Drag?, ROC, I think, means Return On Credit?
        Last edited by farmboy; 10-06-2017, 06:40 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by twistair View Post
          Here are a naked MTO and a Calidus both on tundra wheels. Ca. 15 mph less cruise, less ROC, much better for sand beach, not that much for gravel. Longitudal stability is affected (tundra wheels are heavier that regular ones thus CG lowered, CD also lowered).

          Click image for larger version

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ID:	1125545
          Looks like FUN !! Where is the Calidus Pic?

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          • #6
            Good writing techniques state that the first time you use an acronym in your document,
            the words should be written out in full with the short form placed in parenthesis immediately after.

            Examples:

            Center of Gravity(CG)
            Coefficient of Drag(CD)
            Rate of Climb(ROC)
            Made to Order(MTO)

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            • #7
              OH Brother My post that was intended for a nice discussion on gyros set up for off airport landings has been hijacked by the English literature police

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              • #8
                It has been my experience that while a gyroplane has an exceptionally short landing roll the takeoff distance required to clear a 50 foot obstacle flying near gross weight with little wind tends to be long making short takeoff and landing (STOL) operations challenging.

                It is my observation that most gyroplanes donít land downwind well and a downwind takeoff tends to be protracted further complicating STOL operations.
                Regards, Vance Breese Gyroplane CFI http://www.breeseaircraft.com/

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                • #9
                  Land out? = Yes!
                  STOL? = No
                  Short landings - Long takeoffs
                  Similar to float plane ops. You can get into places you can't get out of.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Spraypilot View Post

                    Looks like FUN !! Where is the Calidus Pic?
                    Click image for larger version

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                    Click image for larger version

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                    Alex Lameko
                    Russian gyroforum
                    Visit my collection of gyro videos

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Spraypilot View Post

                      Looks like FUN !! Where is the Calidus Pic?
                      Click image for larger version

Name:	20171007_121839.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	151.9 KB
ID:	1125609
                      Alex Lameko
                      Russian gyroforum
                      Visit my collection of gyro videos

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Spraypilot View Post
                        OH Brother My post that was intended for a nice discussion on gyros set up for off airport landings has been hijacked by the English literature police
                        Yeah welcome to the forum.
                        Anyway, I don't know if there is a big advantage with large tires on a gyro for soft field operations. The landing speed should be so slow, I can't really see it there. For takeoff, if the rotors are pre-rotated enough, you should get light on the wheels quickly anyway and the front wheel should be lifted for soft field takeoff. In fact with big tires, the takeoff run should be longer because it will have more friction on the ground and less acceleration. The disadvantage would be in more drag that will reduce climb rate and speed and increased fuel burn.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fara View Post

                          Yeah welcome to the forum.
                          Anyway, I don't know if there is a big advantage with large tires on a gyro for soft field operations. The landing speed should be so slow, I can't really see it there. For takeoff, if the rotors are pre-rotated enough, you should get light on the wheels quickly anyway and the front wheel should be lifted for soft field takeoff. In fact with big tires, the takeoff run should be longer because it will have more friction on the ground and less acceleration. The disadvantage would be in more drag that will reduce climb rate and speed and increased fuel burn.
                          Without big tires, you get this...

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                          • #14
                            I have a KB3 , in stock configuration it has 4" rims and about 8" total tire size. Ken Brock did this to lower the weight to keep it under 254lbs. With a smaller tire Ken prebent the axle to maintain keel angle. The small tire did not work very good on the dirt runway I use, so I changed it out for a 6" rim and larger tire and it worked better on the runway. The problem with gyros that I have found is if you change one thing you have to change something else, and this was no exception. It worked great the bigger tire handled the bumps very good, the problem was it took over 2000' to get off the ground. With the bigger tires it changed the keel angle from level to about 4* nose down. That took 4* away from the rotor disk angel. It was fine once in the air, but on the ground it took much longer to get the blades up to speed. To fix the problem I put the axle on top of the keel bringing the keel back to level when sitting on the front wheel. Gyros are unique machines with unique parameters, if you change something you should know what you are doing. Just by adding larger tires to the mains will not get you off the ground sooner. Just a word to the newbies out there, be careful
                            David Bacon

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                            • #15
                              Just a word to the newbies out there be careful
                              David Bacon

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