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the Yamaha Aircraft Engine Information Thread

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  • the Yamaha Aircraft Engine Information Thread

    Welcome to the RF Yamaha Aircraft Engine thread, a place where all are welcome to post and share any Yamaha-specific information helpful to the gyroplane enthusiast.

    The matrix below is what prompted this, today. It is something I threw together from various dyno sheets I purchased from the official AMSNOW dyno shop in the NE, in answering a question that came to me via the Facebook Yamaha Aircraft Engine group, for a guy who is a professional experimental helicopter designer/builder/seller.

    I was a bit surprised after I compared some of these numbers, and will put together a much more comprehensive and easily read chart later on when I get the chance. This will suffice for now.

    Yama on, dude.
    Attached Files
    GT Mills
    Peachstate Rotorcraft Club

    Mohawk Aero Corporation
    PO Box 30133
    Savannah, GA 31410
    www.MohawkAeroCraft.com info@MohawkAeroCraft.com

  • #2
    Electric Problems in 130FI with electric pre rotation system
    ~New LW5 in Northern Cal.
    With Yamaha 130FI
    N954BH About 4hrs on engine now, without any problems. But now I have the space to install and run up the rotor blades for RRPM tests.
    12v Electric starter Pre rotation set up on dual switched heavy duty solenoid. Small motorcycle Lithium Ion battery with 370 "cold cranking amps." New starter for any small four cylinder engine.

    First pre rotation test good. Hand propped RB's. Pulsed secondary switch up to 45 RRPM then switch on steady up to 108 RRPM, but the voltage did drop some, Seen on the voltmeter, when pre rotator starter and remained lower. The engine did tend hesitate a couple times when the voltage read below 11v.

    ** Second test, Hand propped RB's, Engine started right up, Pulsed secondary switch, max RRPM now of only 45 due to voltage drop, engine running a little rough, now at even lower voltage.
    Engine off, engine would not restart. Voltage below 10 and dropping as I watch the voltmeter.
    Waited 15 minutes for battery to recoup, voltage now even less and still dropping.
    Disconnected all from battery, waited 15 minutes, reconnect all, voltage back up some but dropping on the voltmeter.
    Disconnected all from battery.
    Waited another 15 minutes and reconnected all except the lead to the pre rotation solenoid and electric starter, voltage up some but still dropping. No slow short in pre rotation circuit.
    Disconnected all from battery.
    Waited another 15 minutes, checked voltage across battery alone, voltage up and climbing on the multi-meter.

    So somewhere in the Magneto system or Electronics system of the engine, there is a slow short that pulls the voltage of the battery down.
    I will go back to hangar tomorrow having had the battery disconnected for about 20 hours to see if the voltage is back up the 12 to 13 range.
    Reconnect everything and see if we still have voltage drop. IE short.

    The mounted original engine panel did give me error codes 42, 46 and 84.
    42 = "Speed sensor, No normal signals are received form the speed sensor, Able." (NA??)
    46 = "Power supple to ECU not normal, Able." (likely due to voltage fluctuations)
    84 = "T.O.R.S. Conditions requiring T.O.R.S. operation are detected. Able to start, Unable to drive."
    Does T.O.R.S. need to be reset? If so how? ( don't see anything except "Malfunction history code erasure" and I no longer have a "grip/thumb warmer adjustment switch" )

    ??? Could I have damaged my internal 3-phase Magneto due to supplying power to both the engine and the high amperage needs of the electric pre rotation starter, or some other component??
    You can always text me at 530 559 3897
    Brad

    Comment


    • #3
      You say small motorcycle Lithium Ion battery with 370 "cold cranking amps" but what is the Amp Hour rating of the battery?

      Cold cranking amps is the current the battery can supply for starter cranking but does not indicate the batteries capacity for energy output.

      A prerotator that uses an automotive starter will require a battery much larger than a small motorcycle battery, it will drain the battery very quickly.

      Given that you were blowing 300 amp circuit breakers you could cause damage to the engines charging system if it is trying to power the starter motor as it will see that motor as a low resistance.

      Comment


      • #4
        So how are builders setting up electric pre rotation circuits, especially in heavily computer controlled engines?

        Comment


        • #5
          I did do some Pre Rotation tests this morning with the new PC680MJ battery and the two stage solenoid soft start. All went good, battery survived. But I don't think I put the engine above 4K rpm. I will test that the next time I go to the airport..

          BUT NOW, I need to address radio interference linked to the RPM of the 130FI on my Flightcom III intercom using the Yaesu FTA 550 radio and Flightcom headsets..
          I have some first run tests to make based on the previous forum suggestions. Not willing to rewire anything yet, just some substitutions, for now.
          Has anyone found any similar radio interference problems from their 130FI's?

          Brad H 2017 08 06
          N954BH Northern California

          Comment


          • #6
            Not sure, but in my own case with moving my radio from a two-stroke simple Arrow 1000 to a YG4 I noticed severe degredation in signal using the same hardware and radio, still can't explain it. We tested the broadcast power with Jon Carleton's radio tester, and it showed that everything was optimal. I know Kurt Carleson is not having trouble with his YG4, using a 1/8 x 12 x 14 square aluminum plate for a ground plane.
            GT Mills
            Peachstate Rotorcraft Club

            Mohawk Aero Corporation
            PO Box 30133
            Savannah, GA 31410
            www.MohawkAeroCraft.com info@MohawkAeroCraft.com

            Comment


            • #7
              In other related Yamaha power plant news: Teal Jenkins contacted me yesterday and tells me he has ordered his gears to get a new purpose-built YG4i gearbox PSRU underway. YOU GO, DUDE! As I understand it, this will be a bolt-on unit that replaces the crankcase cover like his YG4 adapter does. Meanwhile, while we all wait for that project to be completed and get into testing, Mohawk Aero Corp (MAC) continues to offer the only other solution for YG4i adapters, clutches and PSRUs.

              A second gen, dual (idler) bearing roller clutch has been undergoing rigorous testing this summer and passed testing phase with flying colors showing no signs of compromise nor failure whatsoever. I am simply ecstatic with the results and the success of this unit, which weighs only 3.5 lbs - HALF as much as the traditional RK400 centrifugal clutch, and with slightly smaller dimensions. The best part: No frequent tear down inspections. With an RK400 you are required to remove the PSRU and do an inspection of the asbestos clutch shoes every 75 hours.

              I hope to get back to putting more hours on the Silent Drive (Hy-Vo chain) after I get caught up with my back orders for the MAC YG4 and YG4i kits very soon!

              See ya'll at Wrens, GA gyro con in a few weeks :) It's just west of Augusta, so don't be shy - come out n FLY!!
              GT Mills
              Peachstate Rotorcraft Club

              Mohawk Aero Corporation
              PO Box 30133
              Savannah, GA 31410
              www.MohawkAeroCraft.com info@MohawkAeroCraft.com

              Comment

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