Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Transponders for Dummies.....me. Need explanation please.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Transponders for Dummies.....me. Need explanation please.

    So I see a lot of information about adding ADSB to an aircraft that already has a Mode S transponder. I do not have any transponder yet would like to become compliant by 2020. I live and fly within Class B airspace, I know I am supposed to have Mode C but I do not. So is there an extremely compact reasonably inexpensive way to add all 3 in a single upgrade. Remember for dummies..no jargon, no assumptions about what I am supposed to know please.

    If not is there an efficient way to add Mode S with adsb, starting from no transponder.
    "at 55 I did'nt GO over the hill, I FLEW over it"

    Sport Pilot Powered Parachute
    Sport Pilot Gyro

    Lifelong Member of the Dominator Fanclub.

    Currently building an Aviomania GS2 powered by a Honda 130 HP Engine. Expected completion about two weeks. Wait a minute....I finished it!

  • #2
    Joe

    Take a look at the Trig TT22 transponder, TN72 GPS source, and TA70 GPS antenna, $2569 bundled at Aircraft Spruce. You can save about $300 off that if you use a generic, much smaller GPS antenna for $20 on Amazon instead of the TA70. That’’s the setup I have, including the generic antenna, and it works well and is 2020 compliant. I think the Garmin GA25 antenna, for $29 at Spruce, would also work and be a name brand. Heads up that you’ll need to swap out the antenna connector if you use a non-Trig one but that’s easy. I’m not sure I’ve seen a less expensive route for Mode C/S plus ADS-B Out that’s 2020 compliant.

    /Ed
    Last edited by EdL; 09-05-2018, 11:55 AM.

    Comment


    • #3

      I found it. thanks, I will check it out.
      Last edited by Joe Pires; 09-05-2018, 12:29 PM.
      "at 55 I did'nt GO over the hill, I FLEW over it"

      Sport Pilot Powered Parachute
      Sport Pilot Gyro

      Lifelong Member of the Dominator Fanclub.

      Currently building an Aviomania GS2 powered by a Honda 130 HP Engine. Expected completion about two weeks. Wait a minute....I finished it!

      Comment


      • #4
        You do not need mode S unless you are going to flying in class A airspace (Above 18,000 ft) or in certain foreign airspace.
        That will likely changes in the near future as the world tends to do whatever the USA does.

        Mode C will suffice. for the Transponder requirement.

        The ADSB requirement can be legally implemented with a Mode ES transponder or a UAT transponder.
        Mode ES is Mode S with the Extended ADSB Squitter add-on.
        Mode S (ES) meets the legal minimums with ADSB-Out and can deliver ADSB Traffic IN.
        Modes S will require a separate UAT Reciever if you want to receive the Weather products.

        The UAT variation gives you ADSB-Out plus ADSB-In including ADSB -Traffic IN and the Weather Products including Live WX Radar, METARs, SIGMETs, Winds aloft, and more.

        If you are starting from scratch consider that a Sandia STX360 can supply a Mode C transponder Plus UAT ADSB-in and Out in a single box for ~$3200
        Their STX360R is the same package minus the panel display for ~$2800 if you will be using an EFIS Glass panel display instead of an iPad.

        The $20 GPS Antennas are Not ADSB compliant.
        They do not meet the WASS and RAIM position source requirements of 14 CFR91.227.

        Comment


        • #5
          uAvionix is releasing the echoESX Mode S with ADSB in/out and AHARS. 2 1/4" panel mounted control head and you can see the size by comparison in picture.
          Looking like all up pricing is going to be ~$2,100
          https://uavionix.com/products/echoesx/
          Jeff Brenhaug
          S-64 Captain Erickson Aircrane

          WATERBOARDING WORKS

          Comment


          • #6
            I also find myself in the same situation. Believe I am looking at purchasing the iFly 740 Bundle. Then I just need to find a Mode - C transponder to couple with it.
            Does anyone have a better suggestion?


            Thanks,
            Chris

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm really glad that all those who replied to the request for information listened so well. I had to duck out of the forum for a while so I wouldn't be hit by flying acronyms and sundry jargon. You all did see that Joe specifically requested, "No Jargon", right?
              Regards

              Frank

              Comment


              • #8
                Chris, the package you posted is different than the Huey chief package posted. He is showing a combo transponder/ADS-B system.

                Joe,
                I would wait for that package (echoESX). Since you are in a controlled airspace, then you are stuck with a trig or sandia transponder and a package like flowsleeve posted if you can't wait a month or two for the ESX.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just an additional thought or two:

                  Re the Sandia (and the uAvionix, for that matter), make sure the price includes an acceptable GPS. The Trig bundle does. Also, the Sandia appears to be the rectangular panel mount type - do they have one that will fit a 2 1/4” hole?

                  Re uAvionix, I think they’re a good up-and-comer but their primary focus is drones. Sandia and Trig have certified stuff and (much more) airplane background. Plus I fell for their “coming this fall” with the updated Pingbuddy a few years back and it never made it to market - plus, again because of their drone activity, that particular one would have only displayed ship-to-ship traffic and no ATC-based traffic or even weather.

                  /Ed

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have been flying in Mode C area for a decade without one....so I can wait months easily..but am I right that the ECHO ESX will not meet the requirement for mode C?
                    "at 55 I did'nt GO over the hill, I FLEW over it"

                    Sport Pilot Powered Parachute
                    Sport Pilot Gyro

                    Lifelong Member of the Dominator Fanclub.

                    Currently building an Aviomania GS2 powered by a Honda 130 HP Engine. Expected completion about two weeks. Wait a minute....I finished it!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by eutrophicated1 View Post
                      I'm really glad that all those who replied to the request for information listened so well. I had to duck out of the forum for a while so I wouldn't be hit by flying acronyms and sundry jargon. You all did see that Joe specifically requested, "No Jargon", right?
                      Yes, we saw that.
                      Just asking about ADSB is using the jargon.
                      It would be unreasonable to ask everyone to type "Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast" every time they referred to ADSB which is properly abbreviated "ADS-B".

                      Explaining what ADSB is and how it works could easily require a few thousand words just to get through the basics.
                      All of this information is already available from a multitude of sources on the internet.
                      We like Joe, but he is going to need to at least get himself up to speed on ADSB by doing a little research on his own.

                      This is like wanting to build your own GPS receiver from scratch asking how GPS works in simple enough terms so that anyone could understand it.
                      GPS and ADSB are not simple systems and there is not going to be a simple answer.

                      His summary question was, "... is there an efficient way to add ... ADSB, starting from no transponder."?

                      This is the information, in as simple a form as we can get it to, that he is being provided.

                      Joe,
                      Do want a bare minimum but legal ADSB OUT only system, No traffic, No weather?
                      Or do you also want ADSB IN with the additional data available in flight?

                      The ECHO ESX will meet all the ADSB requirements, a Mode ES Transponder (ADSB Out) plus UAT ADSB-IN.
                      It is currently in "Coming Soon" status. Not yet available.
                      Last edited by Uncle Willie; 09-07-2018, 08:49 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Actually my question includes that I am flying in airspace that requires a Mod C Transponder. So I meant to ask if it was not clear on how to become fully compliant.
                        "at 55 I did'nt GO over the hill, I FLEW over it"

                        Sport Pilot Powered Parachute
                        Sport Pilot Gyro

                        Lifelong Member of the Dominator Fanclub.

                        Currently building an Aviomania GS2 powered by a Honda 130 HP Engine. Expected completion about two weeks. Wait a minute....I finished it!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Joe Pires View Post
                          Actually my question includes that I am flying in airspace that requires a Mod C Transponder.
                          So I meant to ask if it was not clear on how to become fully compliant.
                          Transponders come in 4 basic flavors.

                          Mode A ... Squawk and IDENT.
                          Mode C ... Mode A Plus Altitude.
                          Mode S ... Mode C Plus TCAS Collision Info, ICAO Code.
                          Mode ES ... Mode S Plus ADS-B (Extended Squitter)

                          Modes C, S, and ES all meet the requirements of Mode C.

                          You can't buy a new Mode A Transponder anymore, so any Transponder will meet the Basic Mode C requirements for Class B airspace today.

                          The ADS-B OUT function is an extension of the TCAS Collision avoidance system.
                          To meet the minimum ADSB requirements you will need to transmit basic Mode C plus UAT ADS-B out Data ... Or Mode ES which incorporates the ADS-B Out Data.

                          The Mode C or ES transmission is the beacon that allows other aircraft to see your location.
                          You are not required to receive the ADS-B data but without it, you will be blind in seeing approaching traffic or weather.

                          Mode C or better will allow Airliner TCAS systems to alert the pilots to your presence.

                          Basic mode C will only inform a TCAS equipped aircraft that you are within a specified mile range.
                          Your Altitude will be known but your direction will not. "Traffic 2 miles, 5700 ft."
                          The distance is based on how strong a signal is received Air-to-Air, so it is not very accurate.
                          2 miles could be anything between 1 and 4 miles.

                          ADS-B will allow everyone to know what everyone else is doing in great detail.
                          "Propeller Traffic, 11 o'Clock, 2 miles, SouthWestBound, Descend through 5700 ft. at 70 kts."









                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Transponders come in 4 basic flavors.

                            Mode A ... Squawk and IDENT.
                            Mode C ... Mode A Plus Altitude.
                            Mode S ... Mode C Plus TCAS Collision Info, ICAO Code.
                            Mode ES ... Mode S Plus ADS-B (Extended Squitter)

                            Modes C, S, and ES all meet the requirements of Mode C.

                            You can't buy a new Mode A Transponder anymore, so any Transponder will meet the Basic Mode C requirements for Class B airspace today.

                            The ADS-B OUT function is an extension of the TCAS Collision avoidance system.
                            To meet the minimum ADSB requirements you will need to transmit basic Mode C plus UAT ADS-B out Data ... Or Mode ES which incorporates the ADS-B Out Data.

                            The Mode C or ES transmission is the beacon that allows other aircraft to see your location.
                            You are not required to receive the ADS-B data but without it, you will be blind in seeing approaching traffic or weather.

                            Mode C or better will allow Airliner TCAS systems to alert the pilots to your presence.

                            Basic mode C will only inform a TCAS equipped aircraft that you are within a specified mile range.
                            Your Altitude will be known but your direction will not. "Traffic 2 miles, 5700 ft."
                            The distance is based on how strong a signal is received Air-to-Air, so it is not very accurate.
                            2 miles could be anything between 1 and 4 miles.

                            ADS-B will allow everyone to know what everyone else is doing in great detail.
                            "Propeller Traffic, 11 o'Clock, 2 miles, SouthWestBound, Descend through 5700 ft. at 70 kts."
                            Awesome info Bill!
                            I learned more from that than sifting thru reams of online classes, but watch out for the acronym nazi. His shuffleboard game might be over and his computer time reinstated. :-)
                            Jeff Brenhaug
                            S-64 Captain Erickson Aircrane

                            WATERBOARDING WORKS

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes, awesome info. I need to print that one out.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X