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Is A Compass Required For Condition Insp?

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  • Is A Compass Required For Condition Insp?

    I had a compass when I purchased my gyro (don't know if it was original when airworthiness was done) in trailering it home last yr the mount broke on it and therefore was not functional. I am needing a condition inspection done and am wondering if it is required equip on E-LSA aircraft when my ops limits specifically list "This aircraft is to be operated under VFR day only." I have FARs saying all civilian aircraft need it, but have found other places on the net saying that under day time VFR flights it is not required. I really don't want to put a heavy compass back on because I prefer to use my GPS when I venture into unfamiliar territory and saving 1-2lbs just seems like a good idea to me. If the answer is no I don't need it, can you point me towards the FARS saying this?
    Thanks Mark

  • #2
    Yes, "A TOMATOE FLAMES" - FAR 91.205. Not just for inspection, but required for legal flight.

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    • #3
      FAR's do not specifically apply to expiramental aircraft.

      That being said the FAA created the operating limitations that defines the operation and maintenance of the aircraft.

      Some where in the operating limitations there will be a reference to FAR 91.205.

      Subpart B specifies the equipment required for day VFR.

      Part of the conformity inspection is the machine is as built and modifications documented.
      PRA member 41204
      PRA Chapter 16

      Comment


      • #4
        True, your DAR may have specified the required instruments, but most likely referenced FAR 91.205. Jeff is right, check your operating limitations.

        Comment


        • #5
          I find a vertical card compass to be very useful flying a gyroplane.

          I use a compass, clock and a sectional chart as my primary navigation and my GPS as a back up.

          I feel it gives me better situational awareness.

          I don't know what the regulations are in Hanoi.
          Regards, Vance Breese Gyroplane CFI http://www.breeseaircraft.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by magknight View Post
            Yes, "A TOMATOE FLAMES" - FAR 91.205. Not just for inspection, but required for legal flight.
            Nope! 91.205 applies only to aircraft with standard airworthiness certificates, not experimentals.
            Paul W. Plack
            Private ASEL, SP Gyroplane
            Secretary, URA & PRA2
            Editor, Western Rotorcraft

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by PW_Plack View Post


              Nope! 91.205 applies only to aircraft with standard airworthiness certificates, not experimentals.
              Yes, I already agreed on that point, but it's highly likely that it's referenced in the operating limitations (or some definition of what's required).

              Comment


              • #8
                Hey all,
                I have a question to follow along with this compass thread.
                In my new build I have an MGL IEFIS Explorer lite which has a "digital" compass. Am I required to have a physical compass for the inspection?
                Thanks,
                Mike

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mvadney View Post
                  Hey all,
                  I have a question to follow along with this compass thread.
                  In my new build I have an MGL IEFIS Explorer lite which has a "digital" compass. Am I required to have a physical compass for the inspection?
                  Thanks,
                  Mike
                  If you’re operating limitations reference FAR 91.205 a magnetic direction indicator is required. .

                  Probably you should ask the DAR you are going to use. I feel it is better to work with them during the construction so you have everything in order.
                  Regards, Vance Breese Gyroplane CFI http://www.breeseaircraft.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks Vance.
                    On a new aircraft I don't know off hand what the limitation will say on this one. I would also like to not have a transponder too.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mvadney View Post
                      Thanks Vance.
                      On a new aircraft I don't know off hand what the limitation will say on this one. I would also like to not have a transponder too.


                      The operating limitations are FAA boilerplate and you are required to always have them with you in your aircraft Mike.

                      The particular version depends on when they were issued.


                      I like having a transponder so people using traffic collision avoidance system (TCAS) can see me.

                      Gyroplanes are very hard to see and are usually going slower than other traffic. I can’t see someone behind me.

                      Often people with TCAS come to rely on it and forget to look outside for traffic.

                      Mode C (altitude reporting) also makes the Air Traffic Control's job easier in class D airspace.

                      I purchased the transponder I am using now on eBay for $200 and have seen altitude encoders for around the same. Any transponder will need to be tested and certified before use.

                      Sec. 91.215 — ATC transponder and altitude reporting equipment and use.
                      (a) All airspace: U.S.-registered civil aircraft. For operations not conducted under part 121 or 135 of this chapter, ATC transponder equipment installed must meet the performance and environmental requirements of any class of TSO-C74b (Mode A) or any class of TSO-C74c (Mode A with altitude reporting capability) as appropriate, or the appropriate class of TSO-C112 (Mode S).
                      (b) All airspace. Unless otherwise authorized or directed by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft in the airspace described in paragraphs (b)(1) through (b)(5) of this section, unless that aircraft is equipped with an operable coded radar beacon transponder having either Mode 3/A 4096 code capability, replying to Mode 3/A interrogations with the code specified by ATC, or a Mode S capability, replying to Mode 3/A interrogations with the code specified by ATC and intermode and Mode S interrogations in accordance with the applicable provisions specified in TSO C–112, and that aircraft is equipped with automatic pressure altitude reporting equipment having a Mode C capability that automatically replies to Mode C interrogations by transmitting pressure altitude information in 100-foot increments. This requirement applies—
                      (1) All aircraft. In Class A, Class B, and Class C airspace areas;
                      (2) All aircraft. In all airspace within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 of this part from the surface upward to 10,000 feet MSL;
                      (3) Notwithstanding paragraph (b)(2) of this section, any aircraft which was not originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon or glider may conduct operations in the airspace within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 of this part provided such operations are conducted—
                      (i) Outside any Class A, Class B, or Class C airspace area; and
                      (ii) Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower; and
                      (4) All aircraft in all airspace above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL; and
                      (5) All aircraft except any aircraft which was not originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon, or glider—
                      (i) In all airspace of the 48 contiguous states and the District of Columbia at and above 10,000 feet MSL, excluding the airspace at and below 2,500 feet above the surface; and
                      (ii) In the airspace from the surface to 10,000 feet MSL within a 10-nautical-mile radius of any airport listed in appendix D, section 2 of this part, excluding the airspace below 1,200 feet outside of the lateral boundaries of the surface area of the airspace designated for that airport.
                      (c) Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each person operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder maintained in accordance with §91.413 of this part shall operate the transponder, including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the appropriate code or as assigned by ATC.
                      (d) ATC authorized deviations. Requests for ATC authorized deviations must be made to the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the concerned airspace within the time periods specified as follows:
                      (1) For operation of an aircraft with an operating transponder but without operating automatic pressure altitude reporting equipment having a Mode C capability, the request may be made at any time.
                      (2) For operation of an aircraft with an inoperative transponder to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made or both, the request may be made at any time.
                      (3) For operation of an aircraft that is not equipped with a transponder, the request must be made at least one hour before the proposed operation.
                      Regards, Vance Breese Gyroplane CFI http://www.breeseaircraft.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        FAR 91.205a3 required a magnetic direction indicator.

                        The IEFIS lite can used the AP-6 sensor.

                        The SP-6 contains a three axis magnetic field sensor (magnetoresistive type) and a 3 axis accelerometer (MEMS). The system uses a ARM Cortex M3 32 bit processor. http://www.mglavionics.co.za/sp6.html.

                        My thought would be this would suffice as the required instrument. My question would be, if the IEFIS goes out how do you determine the direction to go. Just because the FAR's allow soothing, it does not always mean it is a good idea.
                        PRA member 41204
                        PRA Chapter 16

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I do have the SP-6 with the IEFIS. If the IEFIS fails in flight, I will be landing it shortly after. I would also like to avoid the complexity of the transponder install and verification if possible. My current gyro has been flying since 2001 without one. It was not required during the inspection because of the electrical drain would have been too much for the charging system if it was included.
                          Thanks Vance and Jeff. Finding real estate to mount and use the transponder is pretty difficult.
                          Attached Files

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                          • #14
                            FAR 91.205 doesn't apply to experimental aircraft. Transponders are required depending on type of airspace flown in. SLSAs (no gyro is in this category) are also NOT required to have magnetic compasses, their minimum equipment is found in the ASTM guidelines.

                            So, as far as the regs go, the only real equipment requirement for an experimental gyro is a data plate.
                            Cammie Patch
                            CFI, CFII, MEI, ATP, A&P/IA
                            Rotax Heavy Maintenance Technician
                            AutoGyro Dealer/CFI
                            Glass Cockpit Aviation
                            cammie@glasscockpitaviation.com

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