My favorite brand of gyro and why

I thought this might be a fun and informative thread. If the thread already exists I would like the link.

I mainly read and try to get informed. There are several people on the forum that I would consider experts (won't name names, you know who you are) and value their opinion on all topics.

Lately on numerous threads I see the bashing of all sorts of gyros. RAF of coarse, "Euro tubs", "high thrust line buntomatics" and the like.

Not to open up a can of worms which I know the thread will eventually devolve into, I would like the well-informed, the experts, the high time experienced pilots to try to communicate what there favorite gyro is and why.

I think they should have experience in the machine; try to avoid contrast with other brands to keep on topic.

Personal preference is fine such more maneuverable single place over a two place machine etc.

My hope is that the thread turns into a Buyer's Guide for the less informed like myself.

Scott

I love my dominator, it is a simple machine that flies well without a lot of horsepower, it's very manuiverable and it has no built in bad habits, it's very easy to maintain, I'm pretty sure even though I haven't done an actual count that there are less moving parts on my Dom than there are in the rotor head of some of my more complex gyros that I designed and built over the years.
Norm

I have over a 1000 hours in Gyro's. Mostly in RAF's and Xenon. I've also been fortunate enough to fly numerous other Gyro's. Single, Tandem, Side x Side, Open, Closed, American and Euro. The best overall Gyro that I've personally flown is Xenon. Very predictable with no gotcha flight characteristics. Much more maneuverable than most people think. Does not fly like a heavy two place Gyro.

Moving on ???

Moving on ???

What is the latest on your GB Scott? Any training progress since we last saw it in Bob's hangar when we did our TE airworthy in May???

Are you wondering like us ... whether to part-out or try to get it going & see if there is a buyer out there!??? :noidea:

What we like about our new ride - Titanium Explorer (914) ... weight savings with the titanium frame & carbon-composite rotors ( rotor system- just 71 lb with titanium hub-bar) ... gives us higher payload - haul FJ+instructor nicely on 115HP!
We have had many compliments on the nice fit & finish & overall quality of components ... those welders in the gyro community have been impressed with the obvious quality of the frame welding!

The rear keel has a redundant internal core of carbon composite !

A couple of Aussie features that the designer was asked to incorporate include - frontwheel suspension ( no more teeth rattling on rough field TO 's)
- the front wheel trail & linkage minimize any darting tendency with a crooked/cross wind landing & sloppy timing of lowering the nose!

- The pod/front windshield were( wind-tunnel tested) optimized for pilot comfort ... I can attest to that ... being able to fly on a 40` Kansas winter days (1.5 hrs - a couple of weeks ago) & not be shivering after 20 mins - as in my OZ'rora! ( Still breezy in the rear ...esp for a big fella like Jim ... but less so for av-size folks - than others of Euro-tandem design!)

- Great cargo/luggage pods ... again properly wind-tunnel tested design run the length each side! A spacious "glove-box" in the rear of front seat - if rear instrument package is not installed ... a nice pocket in the back of front seat cover is good for stowing the passengers "stuff" ... when pockets emptied!

- folding mast - for trailing in non-custom box trailers!

- a two-stage pneumatic pre-rotator .. to give a soft-start & precision control of the pre-spin! A manual back-up PR handle to activate the PR - should the air-system fail in a remote place!

- the Aussie Bolly prop ... gave an impressive static-thrust test @ ROTR
( I have installed one on my OZ'rora & excited with the initial flight test ...before I optimized the pitch!) ... we have a customer who is very excited with the Bolly performance on the Calidus & orders shipping soon for Bollys on an MTO & Aviomania!

- The super-strong carbon composite cabin & tail! ( got a tailwheel! )

- a nice door to facilitate pilot entry ... for those of us becoming less limber!

How it flies? ... I just LOVE it ... its got the tandem stability & relaxed cruise @ 85 kts One-up( & with a light passenger) I feel it's very sporty too!
At max weight ... you just TO , cruise, gentle conservative maneuvers & land .... ALA ...a Magni-type crosscountry profile!

I hope our Israeli member Amit ...will chime in here ... they have just finished their training with Sam in Australia & got to fly their machine prior to shipping to Israel ... I hear they were VERY excited with the Titanium Explorer flight characteristics ... after having tried out all the other Eurogyro's !

I love them all.

I love them all.

I liked the Cavalon a lot and found her to be wonderfully competent. She handles turbulence well and has a wonderful range. I flew her in two air shows in a very aggressive way and was not aware of a restricted flight envelope. The monocoque construction seemed sophisticated to me. The fit and finish was the best of any gyroplane I have flown. Having a heater and a place to stash additional clothing allowed less planning for weather and expands her weather capability. I flew in some very hot conditions and was pleased with the ventilation. I prefer a tandem sight picture and I prefer an open aircraft in the same way I prefer a motorcycle over a car. I would like to be able to haul a bigger passenger. If I could have two gyroplanes the Cavalon would be one of them because or her capability.

I liked the Calidus a lot because of the low drag and higher cruising speed. I prefer a tandem to a side by side. I have not flown a Calidus enough to know how it handles turbulence or aggressive flying. I have not flown a Calidus in hot weather so I don’t know how good the ventilation is.

I liked the MTO Sport a lot because I am an open tandem enthusiast. It felt sporty, stable and forgiving. She seemed to handle turbulence well. I found it easier to land than the Cavalon because of its slower response and tandem sight picture.

The Magni M-16 felt wonderfully stable and somewhat heavy on the cyclic. I found it less responsive than the MTO Sport. That is not necessarily a bad thing. I found it relaxing to fly and easy to land. I have not flown a Magni in turbulence.

I like the power, reliability and oil tight nature of the 914 that powered all four aircraft. After four hundred hours in Puff (the red Cavalon) the compression seemed to be holding up well and the oil analysis said it was a happy engine other than lead. I regularly used less than 5 gallons per hour in the Cavalon. I use six gallons per hour for planning if I am traveling fast (85kts) in the Cavalon. I did have my only in flight engine out with a 914 when a float sank in the white Cavalon. Things seemed to be working fine until I reduced power and then she got rough for a bit before she stopped all together. There is no perfect engine.

The Predator is a one of a kind gyroplane and I only mention it here for the things I like. There is no pitch/power/yaw coupling and I prefer a free castering nose wheel. The Lycoming IO-320 leaks oil, burns oil, shakes and burns a little over six gallons of 100LL per hour at 75kts. The only problem I have had with the engine in over 1,000 flight hours was an oil pressure sender wire that suggested that the oil pressure had dropped to zero on climb out. I shut the engine down because I was concerned about fire and returned to the airport. She is a fifty year old engine of questionable ancestry.

I really enjoy flying the A&S 18A, for a host of reasons:

1) JUMP TAKE-OFF

2) fully enclosed comfort for two

3) JUMP TAKE-OFF

4) professionally engineered and built to Standard Airworthiness rules (no amateur content and you don't have to build anything yourself)

5) JUMP TAKE-OFF

6) No restrictions on use, instruction, or airspace, because it's not experimental

7) Lycoming reliability, and robust systems

8) no rotor management necessary -- no crow hops, no balancing on the mains, no "flap" ever !

9) fully articulated rotor avoids the vices of teetering Bensen-style systems

10) JUMP TAKE-OFF

11) controllable prop, baggage compartment

12) good x-c aircraft

13) forgiving oleo landing gear

14) no life limit on rotor blades

15) lands in its own length

and lest I forget,

16) JUMP TAKE-OFF

Nice detailed post Chris. I'm jealous of your titanium explorer.

My problem is finding someone to both train me and transition me into my gyro. My gyro can't leave Olney until the phase I flight testing is complete.

Larry Neal flew about fifteen hours off it. And I have done a lot of balancing on the mains and a couple of crow hops. I don't know if Des is still the traveling CFI or just doing the ATP thing. When the weather gets a little nicer, I will see if Des is willing to train me in his machine and transition me into mine.

Have gotten real frustrated with the training road blocks. If I can't get the training and transition, will likely part it out due to concerns about liability in selling it. Larry was nice enough to put on new 30' dragon wings and a new prop just prior to him leaving us.

Scott

the last 10% - to solo!

the last 10% - to solo!

ScottSullins said:

Nice detailed post Chris. I'm jealous of your titanium explorer.

My problem is finding someone to both train me and transition me into my gyro. My gyro can't leave Olney until the phase I flight testing is complete.

Larry Neal flew about fifteen hours off it. And I have done a lot of balancing on the mains and a couple of crow hops. I don't know if Des is still the traveling CFI or just doing the ATP thing. When the weather gets a little nicer, I will see if Des is willing to train me in his machine and transition me into mine.

Have gotten real frustrated with the training road blocks. If I can't get the training and transition, will likely part it out due to concerns about liability in selling it. Larry was nice enough to put on new 30' dragon wings and a new prop just prior to him leaving us.

Scott

Click to expand...

:wave: Good to hear from you Scott .... I recall having "umpteen" hours of Dual & lots of balancing in OZ'rora ... it seemed that elusive solo-readiness nod from CFI ... took forever! ( Jim too is "almost there" ... but frustrated with the long breaks between lessons - his bad back & awaiting a larger front seat!)

After a good week of balancing( & getting bored) & feedback to Desmon ... he KNEW I was solo ready & was up here to supervise & transition the next week!

I think you are close to being there ... that last 10%! Good plan - Desmon IS doing gyro training & build assist,flight tests & fixes on problem-builds ... on his days off the ATP flying for MESA! It will be good to see you finally get there - when the weather warms up! Better make a tentative booking!

Thanks for the info Chris. I will check with Desmond.

Gee's I cannot just pick one!!!

I have different missions requiring at least 3 rides.

1. To be out of the cockpit and to yank and bank = a Aviomania G1Sa with the lighter 582 instead of selecting a more dependable 912 or Yamaha.
   
2. But I'd also want to have a convertible cockpit Aviomania new sport model with a Yamaha in it for a little less worry free cross-country trips in comfort and it's going to be cold flying 7K feet over the mountains and then hot down in the desert to fly the sand dunes.
   Be nice to be able to covert it to open cockpit at the campsite
3. For PRA 31 an open frame tandom for the sight picture of a single place using PRA 31's Lycombing O320 so they have equity and be legal co-owners a custom built heavy lift Aviomania G2Sb.
   
4. To look cool an AeroCopter. However that's a great deal of money with all the other aircraft I currently own now.
5. Would like a convertible two-place. So Abid's has the fast track on my wish list.
   Besides Abid's convertible it would be hard to choose, I'd have to fly them much more to really tell you or me which.
   
6. TAG
7. Caladis
8. Cavalon

PS:
9) Tractor - Little Wing
I also have access to Bruce's Little Wing he's already told me I'll probably fly it before he will.... How cool is it to have friends?

Scott I am in the dallas area 4-5 days a week. I am sure I could help some especially when it warms up just a bit.
I like to many models to say one in particular. But of course have many hours in the MTO.
The titanium gyro sure has beautiful construction. Attention to detail.

I have significant time in MTO and Calidus as well as some time in an M16 and a Xenon. The most time I have in my ArrowCopter. Of course, I like the ArrowCopter best. It gives me the option to fly open as well as closed with only about 30 seconds required to convert between them. It is the fastest gyroplane I know which is important to me since I fly a lot of cross country trips. The ArrowCopter is fun for yanking and banking, similar in agility to a Calidus. But it is much more robust and stable when flying cross country. It is easy to maintain, too.

Greetings, -- Chris.

Gyros I have flown.... And I have flown so many I am sure this is a incomplete list...

1. Dominator single place lightweight ( rotax 2 stroke power, no pods )

2. Dominator single place heavy ( Rotax 2 stroke with Pod, or Subaru powered )

3. Dominator two place " light weight " and heavy ( my personal machine with the Rotax 618 weighed in at close to 400 pounds, about the weight of most single place machines... then of course the two place Subaru, Yamaha, etc.. powered machines )

4. Bensens / Brocks ( Both Mac powered, and rotax powered and subaru / Vw powered )

5. Snowbird single place

6. GyroBee single place

7. Aircommand single place ( both light rotax powered and heavier subaru powered )

8 Aircommand two place ( Light weight Hirth f-30 powered and big Subaru and Mazda powered heavy machines )

9 Xenon

10. Parsons trainer / Mazda powered

11. RF-150 two place ( drop keel version of a Parsons, subaru powered )

12. Falcon enclosed single place subaru powered

13. Falcon single place open machine subaru powered

14. Little wing Rotec Radial

15. One of a kind tractor gyro, rotax powered, open frame

16. Pit bull tractor gyro, Subaru powered

17. One of a kind Joe Termanilla Tractor gyro, VW powered

18. Soma single place Rotax Hirth powered

19. Certified J2 " Super " gyro , 200 hp constant speed prop version

20. RAF2000 with and without Horizontal stab

21. Side by side aircommand open machine, subaru powered

22. Sparrowhawk

23. Monarch butterfly with G force gear, Rotax powered

24. Monarch butterfly " ultralight " MZ202 powered

25. One of a kind Chuck Beaty single place, Rotax powered

26. Many many more one off or highly modified machines... would take alot of time to remember them all and list them.

What I haven't flown in that I would like to, is some of the euro gyros. Other than the Xenon, I have no time in any of the Magni / MTO / ELA type gyros.

So what is my favorite and why?

Well its easy, I prefer the dominator. Ive owned 4 of them myself and flown in many others. Out of all the gyros I have flown, nothing else has the feel and handling of a Dominator. The controls have a light yet long throw.... The rudder is powerful.... the landing gear is smooth.... the design eliminates many of the dangers such as PIO and PPO.... I like the construction of the Dominator and I like the pricing of the Dominator. For overall fun and flying satisfaction, no other gyro make I have flown in is as good as a Dominator.

Many other gyros have had good things about them.... David Morris is right about the Xenon. It was fast, sporty, quite maneuverable, and certainly looks good. But for me, the downside is its fully enclosed and more of a machine for traveling than just local open cockpit fun flying.

Some of the aircommands were good fun machines to fly. The ones with short tails, and powerful engines tended to fly tilted to the side when powered, would have to hold side stick pressure to counter the torque of the engine... didn't like that too much. Also most aircommand have short throw controls, these are more sensitive to pilot input and usually require more muscle power to move, don't like that too much either

The little wing was a fun gyro, In flight it felt like it looked... like a small sport high wing airplane. Didn't seem quite as maneuverable or tossable as some open single place pusher gyros, but seemed like it could still be fun and put on a show... plus it just looked very cool. Downside is it is a very time consuming build, and it takes not only " Gyro " skills to fly it, but you also need to have experience with taildragger airplanes to handle taxi and takeoff with a littlewing. Not a problem for some but for newcomers to flying it would be a big task to build and learn to fly one.

RAF was too cramped and uncomfortable for my liking, reguardless of how they flew ( which honestly wasn't that bad )

Sparrowhawk had such high control forces needed that they negatively outweighed all the good things about the machine.

The J2 was actually a fun gyro. Didn't feel like any other gyro though. No feedback from the control stick at all like a normal two blade gyro. But once in the air it flew alot like a sparrowhawk just with only a quarter of the force needed on the stick. Gyro was loud though, and really liked to suck down fuel.... That 200hp lycoming was not a thrifty economical machine at all

Almost all the gyros I have flown all had some good aspects and some negative aspects to them. But for pure fun flying, and for a gyro that just " feels right " no other gyro flys as good as a Dominator. Just my opinion.

The engine in the Super J-2 is only a 180 hp (carb, not injectied) O-360. Mine averaged 8 gal per hour at 83 mph. Control forces are indeed light, requiring no trim (it has a crude spring stick-centering on-off trim control, which I never found necessary or helpful and never used). Climb rate was my only disappointment with that design. Properly balanced, the rotor is far smoother than you'll ever get out of any two-blade ship.

Nice comprehensive post, Ron.

Thanks, that was very informative.

WaspAir said:

The engine in the Super J-2 is only a 180 hp (carb, not injectied) O-360. Mine averaged 8 gal per hour at 83 mph. Control forces are indeed light, requiring no trim (it has a crude spring stick-centering on-off trim control, which I never found necessary or helpful and never used). Climb rate was my only disappointment with that design. Properly balanced, the rotor is far smoother than you'll ever get out of any two-blade ship.

Click to expand...

My bad.... I thought it was 200hp. Kenny J just handed me the keys to his one day and told me to take it for a whirl. I had no idea what to expect. Ended up getting it in the air no problem and flew it several times. Never did get it to jump takeoff... But I was able to get it in the air and flew a pattern with myself 205 lbs and a friend who was close to 300 lbs. Wasn't a rocketship in climb but it did climb out safely.

Other than the fuel burn, and possible higher costs of annual inspections and replacement parts, the J2 would probably be a good alternative gyro for people who are interested in a fully enclosed " Cruise " machine, over one of the expensive euro gyros. I myself was half tempted to try to buy the one Sportcopter put up for sale a while back.

ScottSullins said:

Nice comprehensive post, Ron.

Thanks, that was very informative.

Click to expand...

There are a few machines I haven't flown obviously. One being the big golden butterfly like I assume you have.

I have not flown one, but just looking at them I have to believe they are very heavy. And I have flown some heavy machines. Im not a fan of the very heavy machines. Yes you can fly a heavy machine but its nothing like flying a lightweight machine. You lose so much of the experience with added weight. I would believe that if you had a chance to fly a light machine and then a heavy machine, you would want to only fly the light machine. Larry Neal incorporated so many " Features " into his machines.... G force gear, Folding mast, Complex pre rotator systems, etc... and the way he made these systems was not always a light simple elegant solution. It really adds alot of mass and weight to these machines.

Saying all that, I had a RF-150, designed by Don Parham. It was a dropped keep Parsons type gyro, had a huge keel mounted airfoil H stab and a big airfoil vertical tall rudder, a Dominator nose pod with windshield, 30 foot rotorhawk blades, and a 160hp version of the EJ-22 Subaru with a Parham belt drive and 4 blade warp drive prop. Was a pretty heavy gyro... Flew great. Was super stable and had no issues whatsoever. Hate that I ever sold it... Wasn't as light and flickable as a single place, but wasn't a total tank in the sky either.

GyrOZprey said:

What is the latest on your GB Scott? Any training progress since we last saw it in Bob's hangar when we did our TE airworthy in May???

Are you wondering like us ... whether to part-out or try to get it going & see if there is a buyer out there!??? :noidea:

What we like about our new ride - Titanium Explorer (914) ... weight savings with the titanium frame & carbon-composite rotors ( rotor system- just 71 lb with titanium hub-bar) ... gives us higher payload - haul FJ+instructor nicely on 115HP!
We have had many compliments on the nice fit & finish & overall quality of components ... those welders in the gyro community have been impressed with the obvious quality of the frame welding!

The rear keel has a redundant internal core of carbon composite !

A couple of Aussie features that the designer was asked to incorporate include - frontwheel suspension ( no more teeth rattling on rough field TO 's)
- the front wheel trail & linkage minimize any darting tendency with a crooked/cross wind landing & sloppy timing of lowering the nose!

- The pod/front windshield were( wind-tunnel tested) optimized for pilot comfort ... I can attest to that ... being able to fly on a 40` Kansas winter days (1.5 hrs - a couple of weeks ago) & not be shivering after 20 mins - as in my OZ'rora! ( Still breezy in the rear ...esp for a big fella like Jim ... but less so for av-size folks - than others of Euro-tandem design!)

- Great cargo/luggage pods ... again properly wind-tunnel tested design run the length each side! A spacious "glove-box" in the rear of front seat - if rear instrument package is not installed ... a nice pocket in the back of front seat cover is good for stowing the passengers "stuff" ... when pockets emptied!

- folding mast - for trailing in non-custom box trailers!

- a two-stage pneumatic pre-rotator .. to give a soft-start & precision control of the pre-spin! A manual back-up PR handle to activate the PR - should the air-system fail in a remote place!

- the Aussie Bolly prop ... gave an impressive static-thrust test @ ROTR
( I have installed one on my OZ'rora & excited with the initial flight test ...before I optimized the pitch!) ... we have a customer who is very excited with the Bolly performance on the Calidus & orders shipping soon for Bollys on an MTO & Aviomania!

- The super-strong carbon composite cabin & tail! ( got a tailwheel! )

- a nice door to facilitate pilot entry ... for those of us becoming less limber!

How it flies? ... I just LOVE it ... its got the tandem stability & relaxed cruise @ 85 kts One-up( & with a light passenger) I feel it's very sporty too!
At max weight ... you just TO , cruise, gentle conservative maneuvers & land .... ALA ...a Magni-type crosscountry profile!

I hope our Israeli member Amit ...will chime in here ... they have just finished their training with Sam in Australia & got to fly their machine prior to shipping to Israel ... I hear they were VERY excited with the Titanium Explorer flight characteristics ... after having tried out all the other Eurogyro's !

Click to expand...

I'm sorry in advance about my English… Hello everyone,
Yesterday we received two new Titanium Explorer in Israel.
8 months ago we decided that it is time to switch to gyro and started to examine the market. We went through the major manufacturers in Europe: Magni, Autogyro, Trixy and Arrowcopter (didn't fly with the Arrow).
At the end of the period, we decided that the most suitable gyro for us is the MTO sport.

Just before we had agreed on the terms of purchase, I happened to see photo of the Titanium. Talk with Neil (the owner of Tag Aviation) and the rest is history…
We ordered two gyro's without any test flights. Something inside told me it was the right gyro for us. This feeling was right!

As a client (We are not dealers of Tag aviation) I can tell you that from my Point of view,
It is the best open cockpit gyro in the European market today (the Arrowcopter is too expensive for us…)
To anyone looking for aircraft built without compromise (with all the extras includes!), open cockpit, light cyclic, Excellent maneuvering, T/O and landing capabilities on rough terrain -you should take yourself to the manufacturer or dealer. Those who appreciates accurate work, attention to details and of course appreciate the capabilities of the Titanium in flight- will not regret.
Amit.

Amit Heimann said:

I'm sorry in advance about my English… Hello everyone,
Yesterday we received two new Titanium Explorer in Israel.
8 months ago we decided that it is time to switch to gyro and started to examine the market. We went through the major manufacturers in Europe: Magni, Autogyro, Trixy and Arrowcopter (didn't fly with the Arrow).
At the end of the period, we decided that the most suitable gyro for us is the MTO sport.

Just before we had agreed on the terms of purchase, I happened to see photo of the Titanium. Talk with Neil (the owner of Tag Aviation) and the rest is history…
We ordered two gyro's without any test flights. Something inside told me it was the right gyro for us. This feeling was right!

As a client (We are not dealers of Tag aviation) I can tell you that from my Point of view,
It is the best open cockpit gyro in the European market today (the Arrowcopter is too expensive for us…)
To anyone looking for aircraft built without compromise (with all the extras includes!), open cockpit, light cyclic, Excellent maneuvering, T/O and landing capabilities on rough terrain -you should take yourself to the manufacturer or dealer. Those who appreciates accurate work, attention to details and of course appreciate the capabilities of the Titanium in flight- will not regret.
Amit.

Click to expand...

I found your post easy to read and understand Amit; easier than some who have English as a first language.

How does your Titanium Explore fly in comparison to the other gyroplanes you considered Amit?

Vance said:

I found your post easy to read and understand Amit; easier than some who have English as a first language.

How does your Titanium Explore fly in comparison to the other gyroplanes you considered Amit?

Click to expand...

Vance, we thought that the M16 (the model we checked) is "Harley Davidson"- perfect for long distance flights, very comfortable and flies as if on rails and feels like a heavy airplane. Not for as…
The true comparison was with the MTO sport. We found that the MTO is (maybe) more agile but the Explorer is definitely Smoother and faster. On the Explorer the stick and rudder are more sensitive and the stick has less shaking. The MTO had heavy stick in pitch. You have to work with the trim all the time. The Explorer has very light stick and actually you don't have to work so much with the trim.
Having said so, let there be no misunderstanding. Loved to fly on the MTO!

Beside the flight characteristic, the front suspension, Comfort, quality of assembly and materials, The Explorer has its Level of its own.