High altitude flying - which gyro?

[TahoeTim]

I fly from Lake Tahoe KTVL which is at 6500ft and to leave the lake in any direction requires a climb to 9,000 ft to clear the mountains on all sides.

I am a sport pilot and have no problem flying in and out of here in my plane but I don't see too much info on gyros and altitude capabilities. I have been lurking and reading for a week until my eyes hurt but I haven't found info on what to build/buy.

I am a builder (two experimental planes) so the Bee intrigues me.

Any advice? Is a gyro even suited to mountain flying? (if I head east at 100kts in 30 minutes, I cross Nevada desert and three mountain ranges at 10,000 ft separated by valleys at 4500ft. If I head west in 30 minutes I am at sea level!)

Tim

[Vance]

Hello Tim,

In my opinion a Gyrobee may not be a good choice for flying out of a 9,000 foot bowl.

I fly a one off experimental gyroplane with an IO-320 and I have been to 12,800 MSL.

I would still not want to fly out of TVL on a hot afternoon. The density altitude now 19:00 at TVL is 8,138 so I would want 12,000 feet to get out of the bowel.

Good luck on your gyroplane adventure.

Thank you, Vance

[TahoeTim]

Yes, density altitude is a daily thought along with carb ice due to very quick descents into any airport up here.

Any recommendations on a brand?

[ms80831]

Jim

For many years, that was my dilemma. I live at almost 7000msl and the density altitude at my home airport www.kFLY.us is often between 9500 and 10500 in the summer months.

I own a Xenon RST turbo. I weigh over 250 lbs, and my Xenon will carry me and up to a 200 lbs passenger on a hot summer day. I have the 8.8 meter (28 ft 11 inches) aircopter rotorblades.

I also recommend a Sportcopter M912 if you want a single place.

My friend and hangar partner Todd Rieck has a modified Air Command open frame gyro with a 120hp Yamaha snowmobile engine that climbs real well here also.

70 miles North in the Denver area near DIA, Mark T flies an open Dominator with a 100hp 912. (But they are only just over a mile high at 5512 MSL)

See www.PRA38.org for photos.

Xenon flys in the Colorado Rockies above Manitou Springs - YouTube

It's a beautuful morning to fly down the Royal Gorge.wmv - YouTube

Kids Like Gyros 2 - Megan.wmv - YouTube

[mark treidel]

Welcome to the Forum Tim,
There are very few of us here on the forum (comparatively speaking) who have experience flying at altitude on a daily basis. I fly a single place Dominator with a Rotax 912ULS (100hp), 26' Dragon Wings & a 68"x3 Warp Drive prop.
Our MSL is 5512 and D/A is usually 7K-9K most warm days.
I find this combination to be adequate on all but the hottest days.
That said, There are a few things I would change if I was building the same machine today. First, if I could afford it (in my dreams) I would want a 914 turbo or perhaps one of the new engines Ernie is working with at RFD. Secondly, I would go with another foot of blade length & extra tip weights for more inertia at my altitude. Lastly, if I chose another 912, it would be the new F/I model to eliminate the carb ice issue.
I would not settle for anything less than 100 hp and still wish I'd have used the 914 originally (but could not due to $$). Hope this gives you a starting point. Feel free to P/M if you require more info. Regards,

[ms80831]

Tim

One of our chapter members Thomas Fernandez has a gyrobee with a Rotax 582 engine.

Here is a video of him flying it at our May 2011 fly in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...=FsCZO-Utxms#!

But like Vance said, it would not be my choice for crossing the mountains. Flying it in your local area would be fun.

Mark Shook
President PRA Chapter 38
Colorado Rotorcraft Association

[ms80831]

Originally Posted by mark treidel

Welcome to the Forum Tim,
There are very few of us here on the forum (comparatively speaking) who have experience flying at altitude on a daily basis. ...,

Hi Mark

How are things up your way?

Mark

[mark treidel]

Back atcha' Mark,
We're holding things down up here on the North end. Bring that yellow beast up one day for lunch....

[Bill Clem]

I've been flying a 914 powered Dominator out of Denver for the last 15 years or so, with either 25 or 27 foot DW's. I've flown in the Colorado mountains on high DA days, many trips to Leadville. Keep in mind that it's not just the DA that is concerning but having sufficient power and prop to deal with downdrafts and mountain burbles. Highest I've been is about 24,500 in it. Where you are, settle for nothing less than a turbocharged engine, sea level normalized to at least 15,000 ft, and fairly long blades, 2-4 feet longer than recommended for sea level. The engine on my new machine is a fuel injected 914 with a larger turbo, huge intercooler, inflight adjustable wastegate and a constant speed prop. Should do even better.

[Fly Army]

Originally Posted by Bill Clem

I've been flying a 914 powered Dominator out of Denver for the last 15 years or so, with either 25 or 27 foot DW's. I've flown in the Colorado mountains on high DA days, many trips to Leadville. Keep in mind that it's not just the DA that is concerning but having sufficient power and prop to deal with downdrafts and mountain burbles. Highest I've been is about 24,500 in it. Where you are, settle for nothing less than a turbocharged engine, sea level normalized to at least 15,000 ft, and fairly long blades, 2-4 feet longer than recommended for sea level. The engine on my new machine is a fuel injected 914 with a larger turbo, huge intercooler, inflight adjustable wastegate and a constant speed prop. Should do even better.

Almost sounds like one of the 914s off of the predator drones.

[Texasautogyro]

I fly an MTO Sport with a 912. I had it at Brigham City For ROTR in May and flew with My Father in law at 260lbs and me at 180 lbs we took our time but got to about 9000 feet.

Glen made this video of us at about 7500 going over a pass near Ogden Utah

MTO ROTR 2012.wmv - YouTube

[Resasi]

Lovely set-up, but that would have to be an expensive piece of kit.

Not sure if the Viking 110 can be turbocharged, I know there has been talk of that? Anyone know?

[Alan_Cheatham]

If money is no object build a version of this record holder.

http://www.littlewingwonder.com/pages/lww_about.html

.

[TahoeTim]

Thanks for all the quick responses. Colorado and Utah are the closest terrain to Tahoe except that I fly over a BIG lake.

My plane has a 120hp Jabiru engine and it runs very well up here. I chose it over the 912 for simplicity. Has anyone installed a Jabiru? What about a turbo HKS700T on a gyro bee? (I am thinking about a single place machine).

I got used to the updrafts and downdrafts when crossing the mountain peaks but the turbulence over the desert floor is violent in the afternoons. It's a tough place to fly but the views are spectacular.

Shopping list:
Star Bee - Bee Deal

how would you configure?
upgrade blades to ??? brand, ??? length
HKS turbo, MZ turbo, rotax 912 ???

[Ronnie328]

If you have a powerplant you already like at your altitude, i'd say stick with it. 120 hp is way more than enough to carry a single place out of your bowl.

Normally, everyone is quick to ask new forum members about training, but they didn't, so i'll ask. Have you gotten gyroplane training? If not, you should. I'd like you to survive so you can post pics flying over your mountains. We don't get mountains here in central Texas, so i like seeing the pics.