Limit your liability

[All_In]

Good morning my friends.

As many of you know I've been working for the past 6 weeks writing co-ownerships agreements and then researching and writing the necessary contracts for us to have a Limited Liability HOLDING company protecting owners and members from law suits.

This is the last step needed in order to bill co-owners for use of an experimental aircraft making it possible for our members to essentially pay investors back for our aircraft like any other FBO while protecting all of our assets with the most protection possible in the United States.

Essentially the way it works is:
1. We sell, in exchange for stock, any aircraft we wish to a Limited Liability HOLDING Company based in Nevada with no State income taxes and favorable laws protecting corporate officers and stockholders @ approx $650.00 per year. Look at it as inexpensive risk insurance.

2. If the LLC and registered owner are sued only the corporate assets are at risk and none of the stockholders. In the event of an accident or law suite all asset of the corporation will be resold to the shareholders of the aircraft leaving only the wrecked aircraft as its only value available to recover damages against and then setup a new corporation and do it all again. Few attorneys are going to see a payday under these circumstances and will not take a case for free. This alone helps limit our exposure.

3. When a member joins our chapter they become a co-owner in the stock we own and control and use of the aircraft. This will allow us to have our own two place trainer/cross-country gyroplane with our O320 engine.

4. All of our members will be allowed to schedule and use the aircraft billing only for the wear and tear on the chapter aircraft in proportion to the exact amount they use it and our chapter and investors can recover their investment like any other asset.

5. It allows us to sell fractional shares in our trainer as well as other models, members may wish to co-own, providing our member a method to own a state-of-the-art gyroplane at 1/4 the cost as separate partners from the chapter if they so desire.

6. It allows us to advertise for co-ownerships to recruit new rotorhead investors and members.

7. It will allow us to be more protected when the LLC sells the aircraft it owns so we never have to sell them as parts.

As to #7 above I have decided to setup a national LLC called ‘Rotorcraft Partners’ as a holding company for all of you or anyone who would like to be as protected as possible in the US.

This will allow anyone like Leigh to setup a co-ownership of the ArrowCopter through Rotorcraft Partners and we all then share the expense of incorporating a Limited Liability Corporation instead of each of us pay yearly for our own.

Especially for those who are selling your aircraft consider paying a little more and selling the experimental aircraft you own to us before you sell her. You pay the expenses to register her to ‘Rotorcraft Partners’ and we sell it for you taking on the liability as the owner/seller.

If you would like a copy of the contracts to pursue on your own just let me know. They are only a rough draft and need to be taken to your attorney to be rewritten for your specific needs for either yourself and/or your co-owners if any.

What do you think?

[gyroplanes]

The trend now is to register an aircraft to a corporation, such as (example); N123AB LLC. The aircraft is never sold, the corporation is sold and the aircraft goes with it.
The FAA said this has a distinct liability and tax advantage and we will see many more in the future.

Just an FYI

I am happy and proud that you are trying things to make your dream a reality.

[All_In]

Originally Posted by gyroplanes

The trend now is to register an aircraft to a corporation, such as (example); N123AB LLC. The aircraft is never sold, the corporation is sold and the aircraft goes with it.
The FAA said this has a distinct liability and tax advantage and we will see many more in the future.

Just an FYI

I am happy and proud that you are trying things to make your dream a reality.

Thank you Tom for the heads up and I agree.
All I know is "nothing ventured nothing gained" and there is always some positive results. You never know until you try.

With this company the new owner only has to buy stock in 'Rotorcraft Partners' with a new agreement and they then have the same protection without paying for a separate yearly incorporation fees, resident agent, mail forwarding, taxes, tax filing requirements etc., etc., etc.

It is an extra expense and pain but as long as I'm doing it for PRA 31 might as well do it for everyone and further splitting and reducing the labor, expenses, and cost of incorporation for all of us as many of my friends here, have few resources allocated for aviation and, cannot afford it on their own?

[Brent Drake]

I think most instructors have there machines in an LLC's. It's been done that way for years.
I have some rental property and each house is in a separate LLC.

[Resasi]

Dynamo John, man you sure keep those wheels of yours spinning.

Seemed a great idea, and seems better with you looking for all the possible wrinkles. With regard to a high end machine, and you mentioned the ArrowCopter, I personally will, (if all goes well...counting chickens I know) probably go for just the single partner, if he remains interested.

That is due to personal chemistry shared interest, history, care and respect for property/machinery/, and mutual respect about each others flying abilities, as well as where we would keep the machine and what we would do with the machine. All a tall order to try and get with a wider group of people.

For a comparatively modestly priced single seater, count me in every time.

Thing is for a high priced share in a high end machine I want it close, to know who else is flying it, and if I can get to fly it when I want to. When the Net Jet operations began they had identical planes so you could not tell what machine it was. With only one FlingWing WallBanger II that isn't going to quite so do-able, but if it is a simple single seater people aren't going to be anywhere near as fussy. It's safe, looked after mechanically, easy to inspect personally, and relatively easy to fly. Prang it and it isn't going to cost you a fortune to fix.

When I was in a Department that had six Learjets each crew had their own aircraft. Kept the costs way down because their was only one crew to blame if they screwed things up on the machine.

If this group does get going thing to do is get a small single seat machines on the East Coast, West Coast, Mid Continent, and somewhere N Central...or where the big gyro meets are. Mentone B'Days etc. That way people will have a part share in a reasonable machine there. Or, have them where the big Chapters are with a good size gang of Morons, Imbeciles, W*****s, or any other like minded gyro fools that regularly meet and one can head to if you are anywhere near.

Certainly would give an individual a much better feeling if he knew he was in a partnership where if some crazy or unfortunate does plough in you don't suddenly find the Mrs has hired a big attorney who is about to remove the shirt off your back.

[All_In]

Originally Posted by Brent Drake

I think most instructors have there machines in an LLC's. It's been done that way for years.
I have some rental property and each house is in a separate LLC.

Hi Brent!
I do not actually know. If would be very wise it does cost from $400.00 to several thousand depending on the state. They would have to charge more to recover cost. It would be cheaper to share the cost of an LLC with 2 to 100 folks all still having the same protection.
At least that's my theory.

[All_In]

Originally Posted by Resasi

Dynamo John, man you sure keep those wheels of yours spinning.

Seemed a great idea, and seems better with you looking for all the possible wrinkles. With regard to a high end machine, and you mentioned the ArrowCopter, I personally will, (if all goes well...counting chickens I know) probably go for just the single partner, if he remains interested.

That is due to personal chemistry shared interest, history, care and respect for property/machinery/, and mutual respect about each others flying abilities, as well as where we would keep the machine and what we would do with the machine. All a tall order to try and get with a wider group of people.

For a comparatively modestly priced single seater, count me in every time.

Thing is for a high priced share in a high end machine I want it close, to know who else is flying it, and if I can get to fly it when I want to. When the Net Jet operations began they had identical planes so you could not tell what machine it was. With only one FlingWing WallBanger II that isn't going to quite so do-able, but if it is a simple single seater people aren't going to be anywhere near as fussy. It's safe, looked after mechanically, easy to inspect personally, and relatively easy to fly. Prang it and it isn't going to cost you a fortune to fix.

When I was in a Department that had six Learjets each crew had their own aircraft. Kept the costs way down because their was only one crew to blame if they screwed things up on the machine.

If this group does get going thing to do is get a small single seat machines on the East Coast, West Coast, Mid Continent, and somewhere N Central...or where the big gyro meets are. Mentone B'Days etc. That way people will have a part share in a reasonable machine there. Or, have them where the big Chapters are with a good size gang of Morons, Imbeciles, W*****s, or any other like minded gyro fools that regularly meet and one can head to if you are anywhere near.

Certainly would give an individual a much better feeling if he knew he was in a partnership where if some crazy or unfortunate does plough in you don't suddenly find the Mrs has hired a big attorney who is about to remove the shirt off your back.

Hi Buddy!

Good idea, what I'm hoping is if another chapter would buy one as co-owners. PRA 31 would offer to trade a percentage of our two place for a percentage of their single place and then members of both chapters could fly either one or both wherever they are.

Also my next mission is group insurance for all of Rotorcraft Partners LLC Co's clients hopefully reducing the cost of insurance to all by threading to leave for a better offer and get the 3 companies to negotiate.

Then add an insurance pool to pay for clients deductible.

Basically all I'm doing is going through the request members have made on this forum from a thread when I first showed up and folks were complaining.
I asked why not just solve the problem and we created a list of member desired. Rusty was really on it and then he left.

I'm just adding one item at a time as needed but it is very slow as a one-man-band!

[Resasi]

John, sometimes it seems only one guy will actually get on and do something for the benefit of others, while they watch.

[All_In]

Here is screen shoot from the presentation of structure flow chat of Rotorcraft Partners LLC Co showing how separate individuals, partners, companies, and chapters could all own aircraft independently of each others partnerships or sole-ownership and still use the same holding co.

[Resasi]

I am still seeing machines that represent great value coming up for sale that would be great group machines.

John's concept is a really good one.

[Captainzim]

Hi John
I would like to see if I can get this going in the Chicago area. I know there is a group in Lansing were Tom and Chuck are but would like to see what I can stir up here in western and northern suburbs, maybe even as far north as Milwaukee (I believe there is a chapter up this way and will contact them also over the next few months). It would allow me to get rating and reduce the cost of having my own Gyro. Then I would also add my CFI and maybe a year or 2 DPE. I will be at Mentone and Oshkosh this year for only a few days each. Was wondering if you could share your info by email as I would like to have a couple of Lawyer friends I Captain for on there boat look this over to see if it would fit in IL laws. Thanks for the hard work, I could see this helping out a lot of new pilots as I believe this would allow solo time without having to own Gyro first.
Anything you can pass along would be great.
Thanks John Zimmerman
you can email me at captainzim@sbcglobal.net if you need.

[All_In]

Hi John

I missed your excellent news and post as I was working on the 3 seminars for Rotors Over the Rockies and been here for the last 2 days.

As soon as I get back home I'll send you the information and we can talk if you would like.

I'll be glad to help in any way I can just let me know what you need.

U-Rock John!!!!

[All_In]

@Everyone

The last thing I needed to solve was insurance!

Many said we would not be able to get insurance.

However, Rick Lindsey the owner of Xinsurance has just assured me that he is already insuring co-owners and flight instructors.
He said he will insurance us no problems and for less money than the $6300.00 a year I expected to pay!!

There is no stopping us now!!!

The funding will be solved I just do not know in what time frame.

I've got to go but will check in when I get back home!!!

[Captainzim]

Thanks John not big rush want to see all the Gyro's at Mentone and put htoughs together. Be safe. Look forward to info.

[Resasi]

That is the next hurdle that we are being faced with here in the UK John. Insurance.

We have had a spate of two seater accidents in these big new European factory built machines. Luckily most not fatal, they seem to be mainly take-off and landing incidents with some roll overs. Consequently some big claims which the insurance companies obviously have not been happy about.

Problem is it has hit the single seat guys as well and we have seen a huge jump in premiums even though we have had hardly any accidents and I do not think any claims.

We are now talking about banding together and trying to go and get a group insurance but this is still in the early stages.