NEW Engine OIL Pick-Up Tube

[farmer jim]

Tim -

Nice post ! (#45)

fj

[barnstorm2]

Originally Posted by farmer jim

Tim -

Nice post ! (#45)

fj

Thank you Jim!

Have to get some use out of my soap-box collection

.

[Steve McGowan]

I quit that when I hit my ankle with the ball.. Ain't funny there either.. Only reason I posted was to make those aware, nothing else..

Not trying to yell wolf or cry on anyones shoulders,,

However I can afford another engine much easier than let a friend or possibly a student get hurt because I didn't say something..Maybe the RONG Forum.. Maybe I miss-read something.. Whatever...



Seems the reason the engine died is because the "O" ring on the new PU Tube was too small.. Now thats what an engineer told me after looking at the block and the area of coverage that the new tube would cover.

Other than that.. Yall fly safe.. See Ya at Bensen Days...

[barnstorm2]

Thanks for the update Steve!


Hopefully, this will lead the way for more information sharing by others.

Reminds me of the proverb, the want of a nail...

I hope the SC is back in the air soon.

.

[GyroRon]

Sucks that a O ring burned up a otherwise good engine. I wonder how awesome a Sparrowhawk would be with a Lycoming IO360 on the back of it......

[thomasant]

Originally Posted by barnstorm2

As a result, we are all re-inventing the wheel or finding out about these common problems AFTER they happen to us and little is done TOGETHER to find and test solutions.

Until a culture of SUPPORTING and thanking people that share their propblems is grown and the soob can-do-no-wrong zelots are stopped from decending on anyone telling the real world truth about how so many conversons are failures we are not going to find out about problems HERE until after they are wide spread and well known elsewhere.

More often then not, when someone calls or emails me about an engine problem they add "please don't mention this on the forum". Why do you think that is??


.

Thank you for stating this. I agree wholeheartedly, and hope there will be more learning and teaching. By sharing experiences, both good and bad, there is a good chance that someone will benefit.

[billygyro]

Originally Posted by GyroRon

Sucks that a O ring burned up a otherwise good engine. I wonder how awesome a Sparrowhawk would be with a Lycoming IO360 on the back of it......

Will have to see when the Parsons is up and running,(Lycoming 0320 ). Oh Baby oh..

[barnstorm2]

Chris,

Yes, quite frankly I am at a loss.

I thought I had explained each of your points several times in both of the threads I have participated in, just as you missed the oil pickup information I posted and Steve responded to.

Maybe my posts are too long to get through?

I will try to re-word more clearly.

Originally Posted by CLS447

With all due respect, Tim.....the way you appear to be bashing the Subaru engine, does not help with this process !

No, that is one of my very principle points.

I posed several times that I love the soobs and I am putting another one together.

The POINT IS that if anyone posts something FACTUAL about how in the real world soob auto-conversions very often FAIL soob zealots on the forum decend and label the poster as a "BASHER" just as you are alluding to now.

Originally Posted by CLS447

I don't understand why people would say not to mention something on the forum?

See The POINT above.

Originally Posted by CLS447

LIKE WHAT ? Give me one example(no names please).

Examples abound, just read your threads. Or, Read Post #45 in this thread, the three paragraphs after "Why?"

Originally Posted by CLS447

Anyway that whole thing about the Oil pickup tube still makes me wonder.

Should I do it or not ?

On an experimental that is your choice alone.

IF this was a certified engine, I expect all EJ25's would be grounded until a solution is found and tested.

I know of 5 gyros downed from this and many car racers have lost even more engines from this problem. It does not come up in any of my paid consumer reports on the cars with these engines, just head gasket problems and wheel bearing problems(that is not engine of course).

BTW, Consumer Reports rates the EJ25 up until 2000 as a lemon engine because of the number of head gasket repairs. Subaru did not recall but recommends a special soob-dealer only coolant additive. My wifes car-based EJ25 had to go to a dealer to have this treatment added.

Originally Posted by CLS447

Furthermore, Tim, are you saying that everyone flying a Sparrowhawk or RAF with a Subaru engine, doesn't share their engine problems with us here on the forum ?

Furthermore, yes. I know of many many RAF/SH owners that have burnt up and swapped out several engines and shockingly have never posted about it here on the forum.

Originally Posted by CLS447

Do you feel that "they" should not be instructing with a Subaru machine ?

No, I plan to do some instruction as well as take LOTS more instruction in Soob-powered gyroplanes.

As I have stated many, many times now these low-cost engines open up flying opportunities that normally would not be affordable.

As I have also stated many, many times now, once a conversion gets a few hundred hours on it they tend to be very reliable, especially the 2.2's.

Originally Posted by CLS447

But they call YOU about their problems ?

Certainly not everyone and I certainly don't seek this out.

I often get calls because they know I am not a soob-zelot that blames all auto-conversion problems on the mechanic-builder.

I won't blame anyone's skill set in public and I do not use anecdotal examples to "prove" the hyper-reliability of soobs (which is often what the problem is here on the Forum).

Originally Posted by CLS447

We have alot of members flying Subarus on their GYROS.......why would you say that I am on the wrong forum ?

That is basically, the entire point of post #45.


This could be the 'right' forum for such information but the culture here would have to change.

.

[grover]

I only have about 65 hours total in gyros and I have had three in flight engine failures with the 2.5. The first was on take off, the oil pick up tube cracked and the engine seized. The second was in flight with a friend who later told me it was a defective speed sensor. The third was fuel related on a newly installed engine. Landed safely in all three due to the gyro's ability to land almost anywhere. I still beleive Subaru is good choice but I strongly feel all automotive engines require special skill and knowledge when converted to use on an aircraft.

[brs]

Originally Posted by grover

...but I strongly feel all automotive engines require special skill and knowledge when converted to use on an aircraft.

I think you can say this about any engine installed by an amature builder. Fuel contamination, improperly installed parts, etc can happen no matter what is powering your gyro.

Measure twice, cut once, then have a friend come and double check your work.

[WHY]

Grover, you pretty well covered the subject in you post, when you use any engine ( even the Weber like I am converting) in a different application, it's a uknown game until some time is logged on the engine. I think that maybe the biggest mistake is trying to get to much hp before knowing the re-action of the engine to its new job.

Tony

[barnstorm2]

Originally Posted by grover

I only have about 65 hours total in gyros and I have had three in flight engine failures with the 2.5. The first was on take off, the oil pick up tube cracked and the engine seized. The second was in flight with a friend who later told me it was a defective speed sensor. The third was fuel related on a newly installed engine. Landed safely in all three due to the gyro's ability to land almost anywhere. I still beleive Subaru is good choice but I strongly feel all automotive engines require special skill and knowledge when converted to use on an aircraft.

Very well said.

Funny how long it takes for someone, with no more knowledge about the installations than what you posted, to blame the builder! Pickup tubes are not fault of a builder, sensors are anyone's guess from the information provided and bad fuel has taken down many a perfectly maintained and designed certified aircraft.

Dogma is that you can take a junk-yard engine, not bother to rebuild it, bolt on a redrive, pipe in a summit racing radiator, bolt on super-trapps and you have something as reliable as an aircraft engine for a very minor faction of the cost. If anything goes wrong it must be the fault of the ten-thumbed dim wit that installed it.

In reality, no two installations are identical, the engines themselves vary greatly year to year and few know the previous lives that the engines really lived. Bugs to some extent exist in most redrive systems and how the vibrations and harmonics of all of these parts and the gyro will work out are a complete dice roll. A very large number of conversions fail, but we only hear about the successes, so here you would never know it.

It is a testament that any engine can do well under these constraints.

The good news is that in an environment where this is understood, we can stop blaming the builders, and start working together to explore what works and what does not.

The PRA Archive's have a GREAT engine chart which would be very helpful for referencing exactly WHICH 2.2 or 2.5 people are using so some of the many variables can be reduced.

http://www.pra.org/publicdl/Engines/

.

[automan1223]

Steve,

Happens to the best of us when we are not looking. Like I posted before, its endemic to the parts industry.....

Thanks for sharing. Its the right thing to do. Now whether or not you will see a refund or acknowledgement from killer bee folks, would not hold my breath...

Kind of like waiting for a reduction of all the hot air here from the "so called- ex-spurts".

Fly safe.

J

Originally Posted by Steve McGowan

However I can afford another engine much easier than let a friend or possibly a student get hurt because I didn't say something..Maybe the RONG Forum.. Maybe I miss-read something.. Whatever..

Seems the reason the engine died is because the "O" ring on the new PU Tube was too small.. Now thats what an engineer told me after looking at the block and the area of coverage that the new tube would cover.

Other than that.. Yall fly safe.. See Ya at Bensen Days...

[CLS447]

Hey Tim, I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. I will delete my post.

You said......

"If you are using this Fourm for proactive engine conversion notification then you are in the very worst place to do so. "


This is the only forum that I use.......There are plenty here that fly Soobs, Right ?

Are you saying that people on this forum only share good experiences ?

I have started those Threads for a place for us all to get together & share our experiences with our Subaru engines......Good or bad !

I am trying to figure out the cleanest, easiest & best way to wire my FI on my 2.5.

It's like pulling teeth sometimes to get info but I will keep at it.

This oil pickup tube thing is news to me, so I want to adress this problem.

Maybe you know of a better way to get this moving in the right direction ? That would be great !

Thanks Tim !

[CLS447]

Tim you said.........

"Furthermore, yes. I know of many many RAF/SH owners that have burnt up and swapped out several engines and shockingly have never posted about it here on the forum"

I gotta say......That's some F'ed up stuff !! Why would they not talk about it ?

Must be some kind of Ego problem ! We need to protect people that are willing to share, from being attacked & scared away....I guess ?

That sounds silly ! I always forget about how secretive & private people can be !

I don't know what it is lately.......but everyone here wants everything SUGARCOATED !

I can't stand it ! I just want to say what's on my mind....good or bad ! I hope it don't come off as personal attacks. Oops, I better be GENTLE !!!