Hybird? hydrogen peroxide tips

[Mike Hook]

Here is one I found on a new search engine that is a copter now but they are planning to convert it to a gyro. http://www.jonesborosun.com/archivedstory.asp?ID=6331

Mike

[Hognose]

That is an oddity. I have some knowledge of H202. Good stuff for a rocket if you don't want to wring 100% performance out of it. You run it past a catalyst (of metal) and it violently reacts into O2 and H20 -- superheated steam at about 1200ºF.

It is highly reactive with any organic compound, though. It can give a feller a bad burn. All you need to do is dilute it with water though. It's far from the bugaboo that some have painted it, even in 95% concentration.

The early Me163s ran on this stuff. The combat version introduced another rocket fuel to take advantage of the liberated free oxygen molecules and doubled the thrust -- but that fuel was Hydrazine Hydrate (N2H4) and it is the poster child of all hazmats. Lots of power packed in it, but it is just not suitable for use except in warplanes. (F16 uses it, IIRC, to launch the ejection seat. At an F16 prang you have to hunt up the hydrazine bottle to make sure its intact, or you have a bad hazmat problem).

The article is interesting for sure, including the statement that the pilot will pressurize the H2O2 tanks. "Master switch - check. Blow hard- check"

cheers

-=K=-

[Mike Hook]

Keven,
I started this thread because back a few months there was a lot of discussion on hydrogen peroxide for prerotors. Just kind of thought it was funny that there is some one out there that is moving ahead in the subject.

Mike

[Hognose]

Oh yeah, Mike. One other issue with H2O2 -- the steam creates a significant cloud or contrail. If you used it as a prerotator for a Rotodyne style jump takeoff, the problem is that you would have to take off on instruments!

Kinda like brownout, that our heli guys are experiencing in the sandbox at present.

And landing... the beauty of a peroxide-catalyst (or even the peroxide-fuel hypergolic like the Walter HWK 509s), is that you can throttle it up and down, stop and restart it relatively trivially. It would be ideal for a rotodyne that way. Except... what happens to all that steam?

cheers

-=K=-

[barnstorm2]

Mike,

Thank you for posting that. I hope they have success. Interestingly the article states that one of the folks are from Cherokee Village Arkansas. I own a lot down there, I guess that makes us neighbors

[darrellwittke]

I just posted under the peroxide propulsion thread and then seen this. My question is what steam? In the only video I have seen of a gyro lifting off the ground via H2O2 rockets, I did not notice much steam. Certainly not enough to affect a takeoff or landing, I believe. I do remember the Olympic rocket belt producing significant contrails (or steam trails) however. Perhaps the thrust needing to be less for a pre-rotation system causes much less impacts of steam on visibility? Being a devoted hopeful, I can only wish. That doesn't replace cold hard facts though. Are you sure about this, gentlemen?

[Hognose]

I just watched the film of the Roton again. There is a lot of steam when the rotors start moving but by the time you get up to speed it's dissipated. I *assume* the rotors are dissipating the steam. Thrust was 350 lb x 4.

Carmack's rocket doesn't seem to produce much of a contrail, either. (especially when he operates it to the point of fuel exhaustion -- but I bet he never does THAT again!) Hmmm... the 163 definitely did (will!) make a big roostertail of steam/smoke but its thrust was on the order of 1,600 lb (H2O2 alone) to 3,300 (H2O2 + N2H4).

cheers

-=K=-