New tractor design under development ?

[msmfi]

I have just learn about that ...



Details in polish (not very informative even for native speakers - SORRY!):
http://wiatrakowiec.com.pl/ & http://ilot.edu.pl/technologia-wdroz...-powietrznego/

Summary:
Project Title: „Technologia wdrożenia do praktyki gospodarczej nowego typu wiropłatowego statku powietrznego”
("Technology for introduction of new type of rotorcraft plane into businness practice")
Goal:
"... The goal of the project, ... is Rotorcraft with properties intermediate between typical helicopters and gyroplane, the ability of vertical takeoff and landing of simple structure and velocity capabilities similar to regular airplane.." (Google translation)

Join project by "Instytut Lotnictwa" (Aviation Institute), Warsaw & UE.
Budget: ~2.000.000 Euro

[JEFF TIPTON]

Reminds me of the Taylor Mini-imp.

[Gyro28866]

Here is a pic of the Mini Imp

[Gyro28866]

Exploded view of Imp

[GyroDoug]

Very interesting design. I supose there are some challenges with transfering the power to the front of the aircraft to power the prop, but it certainly looks aerodynamic and will make a lot of tractor officianados happy if they can pull it off.

[Alan_Cheatham]

One problem I see is the anhedral of the tail surfaces, it is not without good reason Cierva autogiros and their derivatives have dihedral in their tails. In a cross-wind anhedral tails along with fuselage and landing gear drag can produce a rolling moment that might not be counter reacted by rotor thrust.

.

[PTKay]

The same group of people is involved in Xenon modifications:
simulations and wind tunnel tests of blades, cabin and mast
of the Xenon.

On October 21st they have a "Day of open door", I hope to
go there and get more information on the project.

You should be familiar with the blade shape on this picture.

[PTKay]

Originally Posted by msmfi

Details in polish (not very informative even for native speakers - SORRY!):
http://wiatrakowiec.com.pl/

Why not very informative?

I follow this project since long time, haven't posted,
before some clear results appear.

The end of the project is planned for Spring 2012, and
as it looks now, it is pretty possible we will have the first
flight of the demonstrator by then.

Try this, lots of useful information under news:

http://translate.google.pl/translate...wiec.com.pl%2F

[msmfi]

Originally Posted by PTKay

Why not very informative?

I follow this project since long time, haven't posted,
before some clear results appear.

Come-on Pawel,
Were there any specs or performance estimations published on that web page ?
What about those conference papers mentioned there ?
Where are all the brochures and posters/better pictures (see below) ?


..... update ....

[WHY]

The long prop shaft from the engine to the prop has ALWAYS been a major headache, plus the comment about the tail makes this a a project one with some real difficult features to overcome.

This fuselage HAS to have been influenced by the Imp .

Tony

[PTKay]

Originally Posted by msmfi

Come-on Pawel,
Were there any specs or performance estimations published on that web page ?
What about those conference papers mentioned there ?

Cześć Mirek,

the design is not frozen yet, so the performance figures are not available.

The most important part is, that for the first time since UK analysis
somebody uses government and EU money to do serious research
and development project on gyroplanes, by a government institution.

The DARPA projects in the US base on private investment and R&D
by Groen Bros or Carter, this one is non-commercial and partly scientific
project.

The technology demonstrator is just what it says, a technology demonstrator.

The spin-off of this project is visible in the Xenon, the better knowledge
of rotor aerodynamics, flight characteristics etc.

Regarding information policy, I am not sure what kind of restrictions
are put on the publishing of the results by the financing bodies.

Where are all the brochures and posters/better pictures (see below) ?

This not a commercial project like Cavalon or Calidus.
They don't spend money on smoke and mirrors, long legged
girls and press conferences.

Since long time this is the first, really innovative project,
since Xenon, that is not just a copy of a copy of a copy...

Started with Bensen and Trevamakki everything since then,
built in significant numbers, Magni, MT, ELA, have the same
basic design.

This is also the difference between Poland and China,
we have long tradition of successful original aircraft
designs and aviation industry, we can build upon,
creating new machines, not only cheap labour.

[msmfi]

Originally Posted by PTKay

The most important part is, that for the first time since UK analysis
somebody uses government and EU money to do serious research
and development project on gyroplanes, by a government institution.

That's why I'm so disappointed by the "information policy", or rather lack of such ...

[PTKay]

Originally Posted by msmfi

That's why I'm so disappointed by the "information policy", or rather lack of such ...

I hope, once the "demonstrator" is flying and the project is closed,
there will be enough publicity.
This is unwise to publish too much, and then have to take it back.

There is a lot of marketing around Cavalon, but try to buy one.
They are in deep trouble to iron out some issues...

And you can be sure, the gyroplanes will get enough publicity soon.
The result of the elections is known, there is 99% probability Mr. Pawlak
stays Minister of Economy, and it is his personal passion in the meantime.

He is carefully following this project and supporting the Institute
in their efforts.

Just wait and see.

[dilapidate]

It's the "if they can pull it off" that I'm worried about.

Originally Posted by GyroDoug

Very interesting design. I supose there are some challenges with transfering the power to the front of the aircraft to power the prop, but it certainly looks aerodynamic and will make a lot of tractor paint officianados happy if they can pull it off.

[Dean_Dolph]

Originally Posted by WHY

The long prop shaft from the engine to the prop has ALWAYS been a major headache, plus the comment about the tail makes this a a project one with some real difficult features to overcome.

This fuselage HAS to have been influenced by the Imp .

Tony

Tony, I don't recall the particulars but the prop shaft has been a deal breaker in other projects using this configuration.

As far a copies or influences on design go, yes it looks like the Mini-Imp and the pusher gyros all appear to be some what alike. C. Beaty has commented from time to time about all gyros since Bensen are copies; that is his observation. Mine is that you can only do so much with the design of these simple flying machines so they are all going to be similar but that doesn't make them copies. I doubt that anyone would mistake Chuck's ultralight for a Bensen copy.

There was a tractor project, with the same configuration as this one, revealed at Bensen Days several year ago that I was anxious to see. It was being worked on in the DeGraw Skunk Works. But when I asked Dick, at Mentone 2011, what the status was, he informed me that one morning he got up and went out and cut it up. I didn't ask why and he didn't volunteer the reason. Dick apparently felt it was time to work on something else. I do remember it was using a BD-5 body and was retaining stub wings but that is all. It intrigued me from the beginning even though I'm not a tractor fan.