Newbie narrowing buying field. What are my optons?

[Psalms18:10]

So much for my idea of a 2 seater as none of those qualify under FAR 103. Initially I don't want to incur the cost or time to get a Sport Pilot's license. So I'm narrowing the field. I'm pretty sure I want something with a prerotator. Not sure if there are a lot of gyrocopters that are under 254 lbs including a prerotator or not. I believe I read that the Gyrobee with prerotator and MZ202 engine is FAR 103 compliant. If that is the case, I'm guessing there are other models out there that are also compliant. Are most under 254 pounds with the prerotator or only a few? If there is a link to a list of them that would be great.

I also want something that is fairly current and without the thrust line issues / problem. Have not explored this area too much yet but a POP sounds pretty bad, so I want something that has a good size stabilizer and current thrust line specs.

Second question I have is on the approximate total cost to get a Sport Pilot's license in California to be able to fly heavier gyros? That is way off in the future. Just curious on the cost but no plans for that now.

I really appreciate the offers from members that have said I can call them. I'll be calling you guys after I do a lot more reading. I need to know a lot more before I even know what questions to ask! I Just mapped El Mirage and it's only about 95 miles from here. I'm really looking forward to getting out there one of these days to see some of your machines!

[Vance]

Originally Posted by Psalms18:10

Initially I don't want to incur the cost or time to get a Sport Pilot's license.

Hello Tilden,

How are you planning to learn to fly without incurring the cost or time to get a sport pilot’s license?

Thank you, Vance

[Illini85]

The new generation of Honeybee might be what you are look for.

http://www.honeybeeg2.com/aircraft.html


Makes Part 103 requirements and has a prerotator as well. However I think they wouldn't be interested in selling you one until you can document having proper training.

[WHY]

Tilden

I would set tight for a little while, I understand Genesis is goint to come out with a ultralight in the fairly near future. Their G1sa would speak well for their design.

Tony

[willisbr]

Tilden, in my opinion you would be serving you and your family a greater helping of comfort by investing in formal training with a CFI and DPE. I would go ahead and shoot for your SP ticket. You can get ground training through a local airport or do it at home on your computer (i did the latter). Have a local CFI augment your ground knowledge and then get dual hours. The cost is all over the board. If I were you, I would make my initial investment in training training training. By the time you are finished with training, which is not so costly or timely intimidating as it may seem, you will have a greater understanding of flight characteristics of all sorts of gyros. You will also be able to narrow a bird selection with your own newly and properly acquired knowledge.

Have you heard of Tim O'Connors' newly published book, "You Can Afford to Be a Pilot"? It can be found on iBooks, Amazon, and many other online formats. He's a member of this forum. It's a great read and may answer many of these questions. Good luck!

[Alan_Cheatham]

Tilden

Ultralight or Sport Pilot it makes no difference, you will still need training. The minimum required for SP is 15 hrs dual instruction with 5 hrs solo and even if you tell your instructor all you want to do is fly ultralight that will still be about the minimum amount of training they will want to provide so plan on the expense. You can save on the expense of testing fees required for a SP license but not on the instruction part.

Don't even think of teaching yourself how to fly, you will almost certainly end up dead, it's not a flying motorcycle but a real aircraft requiring real piloting skills.

If you want to go ultralight with prerotator you will be very limited in your choices so if you could, give us here an idea of what you see yourself budgeting for your project so we can get an idea if it is in the realm of reality.

.

[Alan_Cheatham]

As for the new Honeybee ultralight, I would not consider it an option until they have a fully built, flying machine and put it on the scales to PROVE it makes ultralight weight. FAA says no more "fat" machines allowed.

.

[Gyro28866]

Tilden
I posted on another thread for you, about an Air Command in Arizona.
Billy Stewart (Billygyro) posted this for a friend. $1600.00 for a complete rolling airframe.
Checkout the other post.
http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28524

[PW_Plack]

Tilden, if you read this in time, plan to join Chapter 2's online meeting this morning at 9am Pacific. The business meeting will be followed immediately by a presentation on the HoneyBee G2 by the guy who designed it, Jim Fields.

The session will be followed by Q&A, a good opportunity to ask the source.

Details and login instructions here.

[Russ Hobbs]

You can buy the sport pilot manual and test pamphlet from ASA, very reasonable. Study for the Sports Pilot test, take your initial flying lessons, tell your instructor when your ready to take the test and have him sign off for you to take the test. Take the written test, which you will pass if you did your study as the questions are given in the test manual. By then, and this can be a very short time period, you'll only need a couple more hours for a solo sign off. Practice flying solo under your instructors guide. When your ready,finish your dual time, take the final oral and practical exam and your good to go. I promise you any thing less is going to cost you considerably more in time and money. I know, because I didn't listen. My mistakes have cost me dearly, and almost cost me my life. I know have a very nice Dominator, passed my private test in the high 90's and still read everything I can on the subject of flying. If you have a IPhone or Ipad I can provide a list of very good training apps that will make your understanding and appreciation for flying much greater. Everyone here wishes you success, we are a pretty tight group of individuals who try to encourage new enthusiast to do it right the first time. If you take short cuts and end up seriously injured or worse, it hurts us all and the sport itself. Our kind of rotors aren't well understood, and our history has been jaded by design faults. Find a good machine and you'll command the skies.

[barnstorm2]

Originally Posted by willisbr

Have you heard of Tim O'Connors' newly published book, "You Can Afford to Be a Pilot"? It can be found on iBooks, Amazon, and many other online formats. He's a member of this forum. It's a great read and may answer many of these questions. Good luck!

Thank you Brian!

http://www.YouCanAffordToBeAPilot.com


.

[Russ Hobbs]

PS, this is a fun read for new and old, Tims book is a quick read full of good practical information. It could easily save you hundreds of dollars and many hours of research, and help avoid many costly mistakes.

[GyroDoug]

Tilden,

There is a Gyroplane that meets the criteria you have listed. It's the Butterfly Ultralight. It is the only modern design with centerline thrust and a pre-rotator, that makes ultralight weight and is available today. There are at least 2 other companies that are talking about having one available soon, but I haven't seen a flying example yet. So there may be several choices in the future but today there is only one. You can learn more about it at "thebutterflyllc.com".

That said, it sounds to me like you need to do some more research and better understand all the options and costs and the ramifications of each choice, before you will be ready to make a decision. It always makes me nervous when I hear people talking about getting started without spending the money to become a licensed pilot. While you can fly an ultralight without getting licensed, you can't do it safely without getting the training, and that is going to cost money. Training is hard to find and usually entails travel and substantial costs. That is really what keeps a lot of gyro dreamers from becoming gyro pilots. It will truly test how bad you want to learn to fly gyros.

Flying a gyroplane is one of the greatest experiences you will ever find. But do yourself a favor and count the costs carefully. Be realistic as you plan what it will take to get started in this sport and you won't be tempted to cut corners or make decisions that are based on purely financial reason (at the expense of safety). If you can't budget several thousand dollars for training, you really should consider a different sport where the training isn't required.

Right now you should find the closest local PRA chapter and join them. Get close to people who are already doing what you want to do and learn from them. No one person has all the answers, but collectively you will find a wealth of knowledge and help. Take your time learning your options, attend some Rotorcraft events, save your money until you can afford to do it safely and then you will be ready to take the plunge.

Best of luck with your adventure!!! Enjoy the journey!!!!

[BEN S]

was direct and to the point Tilden, I paid tons of money and time to "do it right" and I still balled up my machine by making a simple stupid mistake. If I hadn't had the training I would just be dead.
If you learn how to fly one, by the time you are ready to solo you will already be able to answer your own question about which machine to buy.

Oh and yes, it is WAY worth it. At some point you will look back at your accomplishment and the pride in your self will be unmatched.

Ben S

[Psalms18:10]

Originally Posted by Vance

Hello Tilden,

How are you planning to learn to fly without incurring the cost or time to get a sport pilot’s license?

Thank you, Vance

I think I've watched enough YouTube flying videos to have all the basic flying skills down to attempt a solo gyrocopter flight.

LOL. No, just kidding. I'm just a clueless newbie and didn't realize the training is the same for both. I didn't want to incur what I thought would be double the cost and double the time to get a SP license in addition to the gyro training. I do plan to get proper training. If the sport's pilot license training is the same as the training for gyrocopters then that is excellent. But now you just created a new problem for me... I'm no longer bound to the 254 pound limit so I have to pick from an even larger pool of gyrocopters. Now a 2 seater option is very tempting again. I'd love to be able to fly with my kids, etc.

Russ - Yes, I have an iPad. Interested in your apps recommendations.

Gyro28866 - I really like the looks of that unit. Given that I'm still a clueless gyro newbie, the looks and color are the dominant factors in what I like in a gyro. That is a sure sign I should not buy something yet. That A/C looks like a great deal to get started. I'm guessing it will be gone before I can really have enough info to make a decision.

Brian - I just downloaded Tim's book on my Ipad! Looking forward to reading it.

It looks like I will get a SP license given the training to get the license is the same or significantly overlaps the training I should get for gyros. With that being the case, is there any advantage to sticking to a gyro that is under 254 pounds if I have a SP license?

Thanks to all who thought I planned to fly (kill myself) without training and were so diplomatic in how you said I would be fool to do so. You guys are very polite here! I'm very safety conscious because in my work I see the consequences of people who do stupid things and end up injuring themselves and other people. As a result of that I tend to over analyze things looking for how it is going to injure someone.

Please bear with me guys as I learn the basics and say some dumb things along the way...