FAA - Let's make this confusing and difficult

[xenon_covet]

I was at the EAA site today learning what I can about the sport pilot and LSA rules and regs. I was checking out the lists of manufacturers that can produce fully built aircraft ready to fly for someone sport pilot rated. S-LSA certificate which an owner can convert to E-LSA and do their own work and annual if so desired.

The list had different catagories to include fixed wing, trikes, and parachutes but had not one company producing a S-LSA gyroplane. Really?
After all these years not one company has put forth the time, effort, and money to get this done? Maybe I miss-read and am thoroughly confused.

To make things worse, I saw a list of approved kit manufacturers (several days ago), and there were only like two gyros on it, one being the sparrowhawk III from the Groen brothers. Maybe I also miss-understood this list as well because it seems that most of the companies do sell a kit form gyro. What am I missing here? Am I reading something that is old news? New rules? Help!

Thanks in advance

XC

[Alan_Cheatham]

Currently in the USA there is no S-LSA Gyrocopter catagory included in Light Sport, so although there are gyro manufacturers whose aircraft could meet the requirements of S-LSA, until the FAA says go currently it would be necessary to register the Gyroplane as an Amateur built Experimental, which could be flown with a Sport Pilot license as long as the aircraft meets the requirements.

The FAA approved list is referring to manufacturers of homebuilt aircraft whose kits have been checked out to meet the minimum percentage of construction that must be done by the builder to be registered as an Amateur built Experimental Aircraft.

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[xenon_covet]

Originally Posted by Alan_Cheatham

The FAA approved list is referring to manufacturers of homebuilt aircraft whose kits have been checked out to meet the minimum percentage of construction that must be done by the builder to be registered as an Amateur built Experimental Aircraft.

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So what happens if you buy say, a Monarch Butterfly kit. They aren't on the list I saw. What if the FAA examiner claims the work you did does not qualify as 51%? Your stuck with a 50,000 garage door stop?

XC

[Alan_Cheatham]

Originally Posted by xenon_covet

So what happens if you buy say, a Monarch Butterfly kit. They aren't on the list I saw. What if the FAA examiner claims the work you did does not qualify as 51%? Your stuck with a 50,000 garage door stop?

XC

Just because an aircraft kit is not on the list doesn't mean it won't qualify for the 51% rule, and just because a kit is on the list doesn't mean it will qualify either if the builder goes out and pays a professional to fabricate much of the kit for them.

If a kit is highly prefabricated and mainly just "bolt together", it will not qualify under the 51% rule and can become, as you say, a very expensive door stop not able to be registered or flown. Any prospective builder of a kit must do their homework and make very sure that what they are building will qualify. To facilitate this and to reduce the abuse that many have heaved upon the system the FAA has recently put out documents that more precisely clarifies what it considers acceptable to qualify as 51% amateur construction.

There is quite a bit of information about this on the EAA web site.

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[JEFF TIPTON]

Kerry; Maybe this FAA Advisory Circular will help.

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...C%2020-27G.pdf

[Resasi]

Thanks Jeff. That's handy.

[xenon_covet]

Originally Posted by Alan_Cheatham

To facilitate this and to reduce the abuse that many have heaved upon the system the FAA has recently put out documents that more precisely clarifies what it considers acceptable to qualify as 51% amateur construction.

There is quite a bit of information about this on the EAA web site.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Tipton

Kerry; Maybe this FAA Advisory Circular will help.

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...C%2020-27G.pdf
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Thank you Alan and Jeff, you have been most helpful!

XC

[gyroplanes]

Look at the list a little harder. There should be a SnoBird, Air Command and Magni gyro at least.

The list was only for guidance. The kit manufacturers had to apply for inclusion and provide a kit for evaluation.... not many bothered.

[gyroplanes]

Fiercely Against Aviation

There is job security in confusion.
I support the FAA's goal, but abhor their method of reaching it. They need fewer lawyers and more common sense.

[xenon_covet]

Originally Posted by gyroplanes

Look at the list a little harder. There should be a SnoBird, Air Command and Magni gyro at least.

The list was only for guidance. The kit manufacturers had to apply for inclusion and provide a kit for evaluation.... not many bothered.

Magni and Snobird are way out of date and no Air Command.

SparrowHawk III is the only up to date gyro on the list that I could see.
Here is the list direct from the FAA site.


Guess it doesn't matter. If you want one bad enough you will build it or buy a completed and certificated one and the makers know that and don't want the hassle and cost of dealing with the

[PW_Plack]

Kerry, these are good questions for (a) the manufacturer of the kit you want, and (b) the DAR (Designated Airworthiness Representative) you plan to have inspect it when you're done.

The recently revised guidance for what qualifies as 51% does not apply to gyroplanes or helicopters, only to fixed-wing. Most of the major kits have found ways to qualify. You could have some difficulty if you used a DAR who's a fixed-wing guy and never done gyros. Find an experienced gyro DAR and plan the process with him.

[gyroplanes]

Originally Posted by xenon_covet

Magni and Snobird are way out of date and no Air Command.

SparrowHawk III is the only up to date gyro on the list that I could see.
:

Odd that Air Command was missing. I think they were the first gyro on the list.

I don't understand what you mean by "out of date"? The list is still valid.

Sadly, most of the gyros on the list no longer have kits in production.

[xenon_covet]

Originally Posted by gyroplanes

Odd that Air Command was missing. I think they were the first gyro on the list.

I don't understand what you mean by "out of date"? The list is still valid.

Sadly, most of the gyros on the list no longer have kits in production.

I was saying the gryos on there were out of date except for the SparrowHawk. It was a poor choice of words on my part, exposing my prejudice against older or smaller craft.

I have a fear of heights and prefer something substantial under my feet. I always found this funny that I can do a roller coaster ride complete with spins in a Piper Archer II but I can't stand on the edge of a cliff at the Grand Canyon without my stomach flipping out.

[gyroplanes]

The SparrowHawk is out-of-production as well. I suppose you were meaning STABLE gyros... I think the Magni qualifies.

I have been flying gyros for 35 years and have not flown over 200 feet for fear of being afraid. I have flown an Air & Space 18 "Convertible" gyro to 4,000 feet with no fear. And have topped 60,000' + in military aircraft, but I can not tolerate tall buildings or the roof of my 1 1/2 story house. It's just one-of-those things.

[xenon_covet]

Originally Posted by gyroplanes

The SparrowHawk is out-of-production as well. I suppose you were meaning STABLE gyros... I think the Magni qualifies.

I have been flying gyros for 35 years and have not flown over 200 feet for fear of being afraid. I have flown an Air & Space 18 "Convertible" gyro to 4,000 feet with no fear. And have topped 60,000' + in military aircraft, but I can not tolerate tall buildings or the roof of my 1 1/2 story house. It's just one-of-those things.

Yeah roof tops are out too. I meant the SparrowHawk III. Are you saying that is out of production? American Autogyro website is all about the SparrowHawk III.