Engine Rebuilders

[cgmg]

Just had my 503 rebuilt, and wanted to inform everyone of how it went.

The gentleman who rebuilt it was Joe Grahek, of the Ultralight Center, in Cadillac, Michigan. His cell phone number is: 231-775-5251.

Our 503 developed a serious case of blowby, and had shed 2 cowling screws through our prop, so I determined to do the prudent thing, and get it rebuilt.

Talked with 3 companies, ended up deciding to try Joe. As part of the rebuild process, we were converting from points ignition to CDI, and having a "B" gearbox upgrade done. The indicated turnaround time was one week for the rebuild, and add two weeks if the crank needed rebuilding.

Engine was shipped out on June 15th, and received by him two days later. Received a report on 7/6, indicating the rebuild was going well, and engine should be back in 10 days or so. In one of our phone conversations during this time, Joe had indicated his crank wizard got the crank back in one week, instead of the usual two.

On 7/21, called to find out where the engine was. Joe had lost the gearbox mounting bolts, and had to order more. The bolts were supposed to be in on Friday, and the engine would ship on 7/26.

On 7/28, I received an email from Joe asking me to be happy for him, as he had been busy purchasing another plane. Oh, by the way, my engine delivery would be slightly delayed. Joe indicated he had run the engine for 15 minutes to test it, and it ran great. When I called him the 29th, he was too busy getting ready to pick up his new plane to ship my engine that day. He did finally ship it the 30th.

Received the engine on 8/3. Take the box up to the hangar, and open it up. The engine is laying sideways in the box. The only thing used to hold the engine to the pallet was a plastic strap. It did not keep the engine from turning, and the studs in the pallet broke the pallet in two as the engine twisted. This is the same box I used to ship it up, and I had used washers and nuts on the studs, as Joe had indicated. The cowling was slightly dented, but no other damage.

Mount the engine, and start working out the wiring, kill wires first, as the wiring harness was significantly different than the previous one. Also have to re-do gearbox bolts, as Joe had lost the longer ones required for my prerotator bracket. Had a hard time starting the engine, and it ran real rough, smoking a lot. Confirmed kill wires worked, and shut the engine down. The next evening, pulled the plugs. The #2 plug had a large chunk of gasket sealant stuck just under the electrode, which was why the engine ran so rough. The plugs I pulled out were wet, black, and extremely dirty for no more than they were run. Joe stated he doesn't keep mixed fuel around, just throws a little oil and gas together each time he tests an engine. Doesn't really measure it(his words, not mine).

Get all my wiring straightened out, and start some taxi runs to check CHT and EGT settings. Everything looks good after 30 minutes on the ground, so I take to the air. Could not even hold full throttle for 60 seconds without CHT hitting 400 degrees, and climbing. Have to drop below 5700 rpm to get them to drop, and they level off at 375 plus(normal for the engine used to be 330-350 degrees). Call Joe the next day, and explain the problem. Joe indicates the timing is probably too far advanced. I want to try the fan belt, which is easier than checking timing. Fan belt is looser than I run it, so tightened it up. Next flight, same temp problem.

I now have to remove my starter recoil, and try to locate the stator plate bolts. Have to remove the fan pulley, one of three bolts has been totally stripped out. Have to buy a tap, and run it in 3 times to repair hole. Can't look through flywheel with my gyro, without loosening at least 3 engine mounting bolts, and turning it at an angle. Still can't locate the bolts, so decide to try to remove flywheel. Using my ratchet wrench, can't break the nut. Use an 18" breaker bar, can't break the nut. Go get an impact wrench, can't break the nut. I now have to remove the 4th bolt, and set the engine sideways on the engine mount.

Now I can see the stator bolts. The stator mounting bolt is advanced as far forward as the slot will allow. Talk with Joe, and he suggests moving the stator bolt back halfway on the slot, and checking the timing. Joe doesn't understand how he could be so far off setting the timing, but maybe, just maybe, he looked at the mark at an angle(his words, not mine). Put everything back together, but can't see the timing mark with engine in correct position, it's too close to the mast. Decide to test fly, and use CHT as a reference. Fly, and temps are now normal, 330-350 degrees. Do a 4-minute full power climb, never see above 360 degrees. I've spent 8 hours, 4 trips to my friend's NAPA store, and about 2 hours talking with Joe, trying to get a freshly rebuilt engine to operate properly.

What I paid to have done: crank rebuilt, new ceramic coated pistons, new bearings, new seals and gaskets, CDI conversion, sparkle paint for the engine, and a "B" box upgrade, I think(see next paragraph). Joe also found that one of my cylinder heads was incorrect, so replaced it. He said the engine looked good internally, that I had been running it properly jetted, there was little or no carbon buildup. Some slight piston scuffing The blowby and vibration was due to the fact the crank runout was .005" on both ends.

How long did it take? 7 weeks, plus two long nights and an 8-hour day getting it timed properly once I got it back.

What other problems did I have with the newly rebuilt engine? Two loose recoil assembly bolts, one carb intake bolt torqued less than the other 3, a stripped fan pulley bolt, and 3 oil leaks. I have to double my exhaust gaskets, as Joe had said not to send the exhaust manifold, but then indicated he does have problems with those gaskets leaking if he uses his manifold, which is truly flat. The seal between the two crankcase halves, on the left side, has a slow weep. The left rear crankcase bolt drips oil. Joe indicates I can fix it by removing the bolt, putting some silicone on it, and re-installing it. In his defense, the crankcase bolts did have the correct torque setting. I also have a flywheel nut which won't come off even with an impact wrench. Not sure what I will have to do if I really need to get behind the flywheel again.

When did Joe bill my credit card? July 24th. When did I receive an accounting of the work done? Not as of 8/11. Sent Joe an email, detailing all my concerns with his delivery time and final workmanship, requesting a reduction in his labor fee, on August 9th. Response so far, nada.

The engine now runs well, and it scared me with the power it had the first few times I wound it up on takeoff. The only remaining issue is it's still hard to start, which I may have to play around with to get corrected. Previously, I could start it on the first or second pull every time, with two shots from the primer, all the time.

I have no proof of our phone conversations, if the question ever comes up, but do have copies of the email regarding work progress and initial delivery date, and the email regarding not finishing my engine so Joe could buy his new plane. I also have my copy of the email to Joe detailing my displeasure with his level of workmanship and timeliness.

Making no comment, I leave it up to you as to whether you wish to do business with Joe Grahek, the Ultralight Center in Cadillac, Michigan.

[StanFoster]

Mark: Sounds similar to the problems I had with AirScrew performance...Steve Beaty. My 532 had all kinds of problems after he overhauled it. They take your money but do nothing when there is a problem that they caused.

I would be out of business quick if I treated my customers as a one time client.

Stan

[PW_Plack]

I don't know much about Rotax...are these guys factory authorized? Is anyone?

If they are, make sure the company hears about your experiences with these guys.

[birdy]

The trouble is Stan,theres no end to the "one time customers"

There was a solar power agent in town like that.He's left the area,can't think why.

[scottessex]

Hmmm, maybe I should get some ROTAX training and start my own repair center. It's a damn shame good work is so hard to get.

[Chuck Irby]

Wow, that's too bad, Mark. I'm sorry you had to go through that. It seems that very few people can really be trusted any more. I decided long ago that if I ever have to rebuild an engine, except for the machine work, I'll do it myself.

Scott, I would trust you to do it right.

[bones]

The most pathetic thing about it all is they are such a simple engine....

[scottessex]

That's what I am saying, so very simple, No excuses for stripped threads etc. The weeping crank case bothers me, if oil/fuel can seep out, air can get in and lean the mixture, remember a 2 stroke crankcase is also the intake manifold.
watch the EGT's.

[cgmg]

Update to my engine rebuild:

Joe contacted me, and is allowing me to set the amount of my refund. I have responded with my refund request, and he is honoring it. So if there are no further issues with the engine, I will be happy.

I have no problem paying people what they charge, if the work is done in a timely and professional manner. If that doesn't happen, I expect a reduction in the amount I paid. In this case, I have no complaints with the prices I paid for the parts, just the labor, which Joe is adjusting.

The other real irritant in this whole scenario was a written delivery date of 7/16, which turned into an actual delivery date of 8/3.

We were working very hard to get Cathy, my wife, flying enough so she could pass the flight test to get our Ultralight Pilot's Licenses, before the Sept. 1st deadline. The two plus additional weeks it took to get our engine back put her back up against the wall to get her certified.

That's the real shame in this whole deal. She is really excited about getting our licenses, and avoiding the additional requirements after Sept. 1. And my hat is off to Joe Swanton, our club BFI who is willing to do whatever it takes to make the deadline, providing Cathy is ready.

If there are no further problems with our engine, I would probably give Joe another chance to work on my engine, but only in the winter, where time is not an issue. I can't believe that every one of his customers could have had this many problems, and he still be alive, so maybe I was an isolated incident. What I was hoping to see with my report was responses from someone else who had him do work for them to confirm or refute my experience.

Stan, I had already heard about Airscrew's performance from our instructor's experience with him, so at least we didn't give him any more business.

Bones, you are right, they are so simple. It's one of the reason I'm not very interested in moving to a larger engine. And two years ago, a friend and I rebuilt the engine, and didn't have leak one, or problem one, afterwards. But this time, I was afraid of runout, so I sent it to a professional.

[StanFoster]

Mark: Its good that your engine guy is at least honoring your request. That will give him a lot more credibility. Stiff happens sometimes...and the biggest problem usually is just plain lack of communication. Stan

[PatONeal]

How about some input about good experiences having rotax or for that matter any other engine rebuilt. This would be a lot more helpful than what we usually hear about.

There must be reputable techs around the country. How about some names.

Pat O'Neal