RAF owners

[StanFoster]

I am just trying to draw out some comments from people that currently fly a RAF. I am asking that non RAF pilots just lurk and read whatever ...good or bad comments that come in.

I am sure I have stated my true feelings many times...but to start the thread...here are my thoughts.


I wanted an enclosed..heated machine....two place for taking family members up...and one that flew nice.

I consulted many RAF pilots before coming to the conclusion that I would be satisfied if it had a good stab on it. I knew I would be flying with the doors on and my stab had to have winglets to give the tail more authority.

I ownly have to convince myself...and that I have done. I dont know how many times I have caught myself shaking my head while flying in winds..ets...what the fuss is all about. I never flew with the doors off until around 30 hours or so. I had no problem except trying to fly too conservatively. I soon found it handled great with no lack of control.

I am very satisfied with it and it is so nice to have a machine that has been so trouble free as I am approaching 100 hours in it.

I did change my rod ends....thanks to Ken keeping on me. I honestly think my old ones were fine....but I got tired of thinking about them..so I swithed them out.

I do get a little nose shimmy on takeoff...more so with a passenger as my take off speed is higher. Lowering the front tire pressure helped a lot..and tightening the springs helped more. Its not much a bother...but I am going to try tightening the springs some more.

I have the newest blades...and have very little cabin hop. Just enough to have me play with the blades a little more. I had quite a bit of cabin hop when I first took my 270 pound son up. It made me adjust,,and adjust until it was greatly improved. Now...just when I have a heavy passenger is it kind of a nuisance. Most of my flying is solo...and it really is almost smooth.

I had one of the angled crankshaft plates develop a very tiny crack. I ordered one from RAF...had to wait two weeks for it to get anodized...and then put it on just in time to go to Mentone.

I had one of my electric fuel pumps quit after 80 hours of flight time...with over 110 hours on it counting the break in period and ground time. I am hoping this was just a fluke...but time will tell. I am not running a pressure regulator...so maybe this is my fault.

My Parham stab is set 2 degrees nosedown with the keel...and my warp drive level shows my keel flies 2 degrees nosedown at 55..65..75..and 85. That is good enough for me....and even though this makes the stab running at 4 degrees nosedown in flight....the nose of my machine not going down with increased speed makes the extra drag worth it.

I plan on flying this RAF for several years...and then checking out the market for a CLT machine such as the SparrowHawk. At present though..I am very satisfied and very comfortable in my RAF..and I want to get a lot of use out of my first aircraft that I can fly year round in comfort.

Ok.....how about some comments from other pilots currently flying RAF's?

Stan

[LARRYEBOYER]

Stan, I have the same feelings as you. I have voiced my opinion many times about what a great flying machine the RAF is, only to be told I only think it flies ok or I can't go by the feel. Since you have asked that only RAF owners reply to this, Here goes. I have 69.8 hours on the airframe and 20 hours on the engine for break in. The engine runs apsolutely smooth as a baby' s butt. I have found no cracks or imperfections yet.
I have the carberated engine. It burns about 6 gal per hour.On preflight I found a loose tail wheel bolt one time, and my prerotator got loose and the belt was slipping. I retighten it and all is well. I am able to get 165 on the prerotor in dead calm and about 190 in a 10-15 mph wind. The first stab I had was a Larry Martin original? It allowed the machine in windy conditions to pitch when hit with a gust up or down. My training taught me to load the blades and ride it out. I bought LM's new ultamate stab and now I would fly the RAF in windy days and feel no pitch ocilations at all. If you remember, Larry got a lot of flack from the no it alls when he posted his stab fixed all the worries of pitch instability. Well I think he did. My machine has a tiny bit 0f cabin hop, but virtually no stick shake. The rotors turn at 321 with my weight and 340 with a big guy about 265. I have not noticed any difference in cabin hop with more weight.
To conclude, I believe the RAF is one of the best, safe, fun, durable,stable,manueverable, gyros you can buy. I an sure the sparrow Hawk is all those things, but I would not trade mine in at this juncture for one if the trade was based on stability or safety only. I got that now!

[ScottTinnesand]

Stan,
I'm not an RAF owner, but I do fly them. I've been fortunate to fly several different gyros and all three different RAF configurations (stock RAF, RAF w/stab and RAF w/AAI mod). I personally choose the AAI modified RAF over the other two.

It's very clear that both you and Larry are quite happy with your machines just as they are. Although I may disagree on the stability issue, I have no intention of arguing with anyone about that.

However, I can add some comments that apply to your post. You mentioned flying year-round. I couldn't tell by your post if you had a heater installed or not. If not, I have found the heater Randy Coplen installed on his Modified RAF to be quite acceptable. He installed it last fall and I flew his gyro all winter in Seattle and it worked just fine. I wasn't there during the installation, but I'm sure he would be happy to help you with info if you need it.

Once again, I don't know if you have seen/flown the Sparrowhawk, but the additional cabin size is nothing short of awesome. After doing LOTS of flight instruction in an RAF cabin, when I flew the Sparrowhawk with Jim Mayfield during my recent CFI renewal, I was thoroughly surprized with the room. Your son sounds like he's a big fellow. The larger cabin will be much more comfortable.

My last comment: I would recommend purchasing the AAI Modified Kit and installing it on your machine. Like I mentioned earlier, I find the Modified RAF the best by far. Having flown the three configurations and comparing them 'apples to apples', the RAF with stab is more stable and safer than one without and a AAI Modified RAF is more stable and safer than one with a stab only. Larry, I would trade my gyro (if I had one!) in for a Sparrowhawk.

Best Regards,
Scott

[StanFoster]

Scott: Good reply.... The cabin in a SparrowHawk is much more roomier. 98% of my flying is solo....and I am happy with it. I will say it is packed when Jeff gets in there..

But for now,,,,it is serving my needs quite well. Someday.. I will probably be building a SparrowHawk.

AAI just seems to be a first class company.

Stan

[Gary_in_Orygun]

I have been vocal over the years on this conference and felt I have said most of my piece. I forget that maybe new joiners might be interested too. I'm not going to get into my whole history, but it all started...

Gee, I was thinking I bought my kit at Oshkosh 1999, but it was actually 2000. How can I forget that I got the 2000 in 2000? It first flew Nov 2001. I have much of my experiences with my machine documented on my website at:

http://home.att.net/~gary_air2/home.htm

Tim Witham inspired (by seeing his website) me to keep up my website for others who might be interested.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with my machine. I've had the occasional maintenance issues. One of the later, more expensive ones was the reduction drive plate cracking. Peter from RAF stated that it was probably stressed when I rolled my machine over. He may have been right. But I have heard of other RAF reduction drive plates cracking too that had not been rolled.

I am still trying to get out some hop from my new Sport Copter rotorhead and rotorblade setup. My RAF blades and head were smoother than what I have now, but that was after spending lots of money with Gary Brewer for him to set it up with his balancer. I wish Jim Vanek had a setup like that here in Oregon. I do not like seat-of-the-pants adjustments. I can visually see my rotorhead wobble out of balance, although the blade balance has been checked more than once.

I have been working with the cordwise adjustment a little. But like I said, I don't like the seat-of-the-pants technique. I'm not sure I'm making it better, although it doesn't feel like it is getting worse.

[KenSandyEggo]

Gary, have you perfectly centered the hub-bar between the towers with the gauge? I found that this is what really gets them smooth, unless like Peter says, and will say the rest of his life to you when you call him for whatever, maybe the rollover threw something off. That's all I did when I got my SCs. I just hung them, centered them and that was it and I get a very smooth ride.

[rgraffeo]

I've talked to Stan, Larry & Ken a few times by email about the RAF2000. I'm not one who uses the forums much, but I view the topics about once a week. I guess it's because of all the flak that RAF recieved in the past on Norm's forum & about my friend & instructor.

I have about 160 flying hours on my RAF, I don't fly as much as I like. I flew my RAF without a stabilizer about 100 hours, but felt it needed some pitch stability. I feel comfortable in my machine.

At my chapter meets I'm usally the only one with a two place machine so I'm always asked to give rides. I've yet to find one person who didn't enjoy the experience. But most of the folks never flew in a gyro before.

[PW_Plack]

Stan, Rudy...

If you fly an RAF, you may not like everything you read here, but at least you leave equipped to make an informed decision. Staying away only leaves things other forum readers less informed.

[Dean_Dolph]

Rudy, I think the flack on Norm's conference (most of the same people participate here) was generated by the fact that some people didn't want to accept the physics. The people on Norm's conference and Todd's forum are caring people and take responsibility for preventing incidents whenever possible.

Once people quit debating the physics point then it was a case of accepting the fact that despite the physics there were those like yourself, Stan and others who liked the RAF. It is easier on the rest of us though when people like Stan acknowledge the stability issue and at the very least install a horz stab. We then know that an informed decision was made and we can quit worrying about what could happen.

However, I think you will continue to see new people get an ear full so that they also can make an informed decision. That design is flawed. But, considered band-aids or not, there are things that can be done to enhance the stability and the new people need to know what they are getting into.

[Gary_in_Orygun]

Ken, I did have my cordwise set to dead-center. Then I started moving it off center to one side (50/50 chance I went the right way). It may be a little better off. Remember, I have prototype Sport Copter towers on a Sport Copter head. Although Jim has now built an exact version for his 2-place and doesn't have the problems.

With my original set of blades, Gary Brewer first adjusted the tracking for best ride based on his balance meter. Then he adjusted the cordwise and found that .015 to one side smoothed things out even more.

I have adjusted my current cordwise about .010 to one side and will consider going more to see if that helps. But like I said, I hate the seat-of-the-pants determination to see if it is getting better. If I had a good co-pilot with me, they could watch my head to see if the wobble is getting better. I don't like looking up too long while I'm flying because I get disoriented. Jim said that he would work with me more to get this smoothed out. Everything he learns will benifit both of us, and more of his customers too. It is just finding the time.

[KenSandyEggo]

Maybe your undersling isn't correct. I'll try to measure mine today so you can get an idea of where it's at. I have the AAI mod.

[Gary_in_Orygun]

Thanks Ken. Those measurements would be helpful. Jim V. said he would get his machinist to make up a couple different tower heights for us to try.