G8-2-20i Pressure Jet Engine

[autogyro]

Does any one know about G8-2-20i Pressure Jet Engine , made by Gluhareff Helicopters LLC.
how about its noise? how about the jet body tempretrue in runing?
why thire helicopter did not flight using this jet engine?

Thanks

[Bruno]

As I have said elsewhere in this forum, Gluhareff 'pressure jets' are curious devices, best avoided by people who are not prepared to invest serious time and money in reverse engineering the thing to bring it up to nominal performance. Namely, the inventor was very secretive about the exact specs and put some intentional misdirection into the patent application and the published plans for the engine. No one except Eugene Gluhareff himself has been able to squeeze the nominal output from those things. He died without letting the secret on.

If you wish to power something with a pressure jet, contact GLC Inc. in Canada (http://www.glcinc.ca). They have re-engineered the pressure jet and brought it to rather greater levels of performance than the original. They are working on an UAV application for their engine.

The attraction of those engines is low cost and amazing simplicity. The downside is great noise, relatively high fuel consumption and high operating temperature.

If you plan to use it on rotor tips, forget it. Remember it is a relatively long thin-wall tube heated to very high temperature. It is supposed to work at the end of a very long rotating arm, right? Try to calculate the centrifugal force working on that tube, trying to bend it, at 200-300 rpm. You will need some serious bracing.

In addition, that big gob at the tip of your rotor is a pretty efficient aerodynamic brake when you enter auto-rotation. You lose rotor speed in a jiffy. Auto-rotation just doesn't work with it.

[autogyro]

thank you Bruno very much, you gave me more usefull information of it. some one use peroxide to
to drive rotor (http://www.peroxidepropulsion.com/), but it is only 190 rpm, so do you have any good suggestion for balde tip engine?
cheer.

[Vance]

We built a Gluhareff pressure jet and a dynamometer to test its output. We exceeded the published output by about 12 % when we warmed the liquid petroleum tank to 130 degrees f. It worked from the beginning, no magic or secrets.

It sounded more like a fuel dragster and even with earplugs and a head set it was a little painful. It made 123 decibles on the c scale at 36 inches and 45 degrees. Half of it would glow red.

I found it very interesting.

Thank you. Vance

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Vance

We built a Gluhareff pressure jet and a dynamometer to test its output. We exceeded the published output by about 12 % when we warmed the liquid petroleum tank to 130 degrees f. It worked from the beginning, no magic or secrets.

That's quite unusual. One of the very few positive assessments I have heard (and I've been around). Curiously, another positive view of the thing I heard came from Craig Wall, a gyro enthusiast who used to be a contributor to the forum, as far as I know.

Craig actually met Eugene Gluhareff's daughter, who inherited her father's papers and -- according to rumors -- may even have had some business deals with her concerning the engine.

Yes, the noise is quite something, isn't it?

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by autogyro

thank you Bruno very much, you gave me more usefull information of it. some one use peroxide to
to drive rotor (http://www.peroxidepropulsion.com/), but it is only 190 rpm, so do you have any good suggestion for balde tip engine?
cheer.

No, sorry, I have no suggestions. I think having engines on the rotor is not a good approach for pre-rotation, as you are going to have them on all the time, not just during pre-rotation, and they will just be a bother.

What occurs to me is probably stupid. People must have tried it and rejected it for some good reason that I am not aware of. Why are people not using a differential? I mean, with a brake on each output shaft, you can have the engine power either the rotor, or the prop, or both -- at will. Differential can be made small and lightweight. The central diff on the first Audi Quattro transmitted some 250 HP and was the size of a fist.

[autogyro]

Originally Posted by Bruno

No, sorry, I have no suggestions. I think having engines on the rotor is not a good approach for pre-rotation, as you are going to have them on all the time, not just during pre-rotation, and they will just be a bother..

Dear Bruno, i also want use a powerful pre-rotation engine to the jump take off engine and pre-rotation one.

Originally Posted by Bruno

What occurs to me is probably stupid. People must have tried it and rejected it for some good reason that I am not aware of. Why are people not using a differential? I mean, with a brake on each output shaft, you can have the engine power either the rotor, or the prop, or both -- at will. Differential can be made small and lightweight. The central diff on the first Audi Quattro transmitted some 250 HP and was the size of a fist.

good idea, i will consider what you said cearfully.
thanks agin, Bruno.
Edward.

[karlbamforth]

The best pre-rotator I seen so far is the guy who fitted a goped engine to his gyro. I'm sure there is a link to a video somewhere here.

[karlbamforth]

Here is the U tube link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukbGtD2LN-4

or search the threads for goped.

[Bruno]

An amazing demonstration. Is he using the goped engine to power the rotor all the time, or just for pre-rotation? I saw two videos of his take-off, landing and near-hover demonstrations and it looked to me like he was having his rotor powered full time. Amazing, whatever he is doing.

(But still, I say, a small diff should be simpler than a small additional engine.)

[karlbamforth]

I believe he does keep the rotor partially powered, offsetting torque with rudder.

You may be right about the diff, but to date the go-ped system is the most effective I have seen in use.

Got any drawings of how you would like to set it up ?

[karlbamforth]

I just watched the video again and it is quite a windy day. So may not be quite as impressive as it first appears.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by karlbamforth

Got any drawings of how you would like to set it up ?

No, nothing; the idea just popped up. I'll have to think about it. But, it looks like such an obvious idea that it would have occurred to a hundred gyro builders by now if it were any good. There must be a big catch somewhere.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by karlbamforth

I just watched the video again and it is quite a windy day. So may not be quite as impressive as it first appears.

Yes, the thought cossed my mind, too. But, there's another video of the guy doing it from a helipad, where it doesn't seem to be blowing that much. He's still doing nice things.

[Alan_Cheatham]

For information on the Goped prerotator check out this thread: http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13583

The prerotator does not power the rotor in flight, it unloads as the blades approach flight rpm. Version two is forthcoming.