Tip Rocket Pre-Rotation

[PeroxidePropuls]

I have developed a pre-rotation system, using peroxide rockets at the rotor tips. It is very powerful. At the first test the rotor was spinning up to 314 rpm in 45 seconds, when the autogyro lifted. I did not need to use the full power.
There is no torque that want to twist the autogyro.

I am appreciating any comments and advise from the members of this forum for the further development and testing.

I have one question that I am especially interested to get your opinion: -It is possible to spin up the rotor with this system until the gyro takes off! You can convince yourselves about that if you take a look on the movie-file on my website. If I keep the rockets running for some more time and accelerate to forward flying speed with the propeller. Would I than do a controllable vertical take-off and be able to shut off the rockets after the take-off -or not?

Remember: One should not compare with jump start I think, because I do not need to go to 0 degree pitch to spinn up the rotor and I can run the rockets and the propeller simultaniously.

You can read about my system on my website: www.peroxidepropulsion.com/article/22

[Brent_Brown]

Ok you’re over here now. If you set the blade pitch for gyro flight you will see just how much rotor speed is needed to feel like it wants to life off. I’m not sure it will, but I have loaded my blades pulling out of a hard diving bank and got some vertical life when I leveled off with the rotor speed above the needed RPM. But I had forward speed all ready and no rotor tech to tell how high they were above flight RPM. Lets say you can get the blades to 400 RRPM this is over flight RRPM this should make a no roll takeoff or very, very short one possible. The thing about your set up is no torque to the mast so it is safe to just take off as we do now no special training needed or unfamiliar actions acting on the gyro.

[Brent_Brown]

accelerate to forward flying speed with the propeller. Would I than do a controllable vertical take-off and be able to shut off the rockets after the take-off -or not?

It would be controllable and if you accelerate to flying speed no rockert are needed at that time.

My question is will it takeoff vertical with the blades at a gyro blade pitch setting say 1.5 degrees? anyone from the knowing care to jump in.

[quadrirotor]

Super, the noise is not so bad!
this device seems very simple. it would be very interesting to have mechanical details!What's the price for a spin off?
very promising! go ahead!

[Brent_Brown]

The next step is a real flight test. I do not plan to change the blade pitch. It is fixed at 4 degrees and it is supposed to be like that when flying the conventional way with small autogyros like the swedish Bumble Bee (Humlan in Swedish). What pitch angle are you used to see?

Now can the bee guys tell me what setting you use on the ultra light gyros. 4 degrees sounds high to me but I'm not going to change my blades to test it.

I know guys that fly in the 8000 feet or higher might go with more pitch but I don't know if it is that high.

Any help O great wise one?

[Brent_Brown]

Chuck Beaty can you help me with this blade pitch thing. Can a gyro take off vertically with a 1.5 degree setting. lets use a base gyro 600 pound gross weight, 23" Fleck blades. that is what it looks like he is using.
And how will the gyro fly with a 4 degree setting. I think it will just climb more than more forward and RRPM will be low. Just my guess. I don't know.

[quadrirotor]

Did you try to use the exhaust gas (through a Jacob Brake Valve) of an internal combustion engine to propelle your rotor? may be a problem of temperature but this would be a very elegant solution with no more (may be less) weight than the prerotators used today!... If the problem of temperature is too overwhelming, one cylinder of the engine could be used as a compressor by shuting down the gas injector...(may be one in two strokes or something like that...to be figured out!...).

In the "modern gyroplane design" of Martin Hollman, the pitch angle of the blades is 4 degrees...

the Djinn helo (1953) with pressurized tips driven...more than one hundred built, some are still flying...a great technical success!

http://www.russian.ee/~star/vertigo/snias_jinn-r.html

[PeroxidePropuls]

I have not tried to drive the tip rockets with exhaust gas from the propeller engine as you propose, but I made something not so different I think: -I were running the rockets nozzles with compressed nitrogen gas from a bottle. I did this pre-test as a preparation before the "real" test with hydrogen peroxide.You find the mpg-file showing the pre-test here:
www.peroxidepropulsion.com/article/20
The rotor spinned up to 150 rpm.

[quadrirotor]

I am willing to prerotate the rotor with some kind of compressed gaz but not with highly expensive and dangerous rockets...you have my advice!...

[PeroxidePropuls]

Originally Posted by quadrirotor

I am willing to prerotate the rotor with some kind of compressed gaz but not with highly expensive and dangerous rockets...you have my advice!...

I can not agree that HP rockets are dangerous. Why do you think that? They are the safest rockets or jets around. No combustion is taking place, just decomposition to steam and oxygen gas in contact with the silver screens in the very tiny rockets. It is to compare with a small steam generator.

The liquid HP can not accumulate in any way. It would escape through the rocket nozzle. The rocket is like an open pipe.

When it comes to your opinion regarding cost I also disagree. I expect the cost for the system not be any higher than other pre-rotation systems. The differece is that tip rockets have so much better performance. Can you tell me a comparable system which allow for a vertical take-off?

The only thing that may be a hurdle is the price of the 80% HP fuel. I need to sell it for around 10 USD/liter to cover my costs when I introduce it. That would be around 25 USD/VTO, but you don´t need to spinn up the rotor until the gyro takes off vertically every time you fly. I also expect to be able to lower the price for HP when the sales picks up. At last: -As you said yourself. If you dont like HP, you can run the same tip rocket system with compressed gas and spinn up the rotor to 150 rpm.

[quadrirotor]

cost for 2 to 3 liters HP for a spin off = i don't know (30$ to 300$ depending on a creative comptability...); having 50bars of pressure behind my head or under my balls, is not an happy perspective...150 rpm for compressed gas is only the limitation of your nitrogen pressureXdebit bottle...with a compressor, you fix the limits you need...and no need of a rocket---> you need an aerodynamic and optimised nozzle...

[PeroxidePropuls]

OK Andre´,
It seems that I cant convince you, but the same type of bottle that I have is used to store oxygen gas at around 150 bars onboard trafic airplanes.
I am not so sure if it is any more dangerous to go near a pressure tested and approved gas bottle equipped with a safety valve, than to fly an autogyro?

[quadrirotor]

To fly a pressurized bottle on a gyro is even more dangerous!...

[PeroxidePropuls]

Don´t pick up diving André, because I bileive those guys have a bottle like mine on their back

[quadrirotor]

OK you won!...Just make it! fly it! and good luck!...