Barnett J4B2

[Stan Westbrook]

OK, I didn't get any hits on my request for info on the Kinney HRH so I will move on. I may have posted it in the wrong place. I posted in the builders section. The gyro is probably more in my talent range anyway. I am looking for feed back on the Barnett designs. I want something that I can mostly scratch build because I just cannot make myself plop down the cash for a kit. So what say ye, oh group of eternal wisdom?

[Brent_Brown]

I don't know of anyother HRH flying but the one.
I think the barnett would be a nice gyro. I would like to build one.

[mark treidel]

Stan, if you're interested in a Barnett, contact John Revenboer. He has a J4B2 for sale now...also others. He goes by SKYPUPPY here on the forum.

[JEFF TIPTON]

I too am looking at this machine. I have only twenty nine J4B or J4B2 gyro's registered with the FAA. I have found three NTSB reports on the models. One loss of control and two no training related.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...03X01857&key=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...08X05452&key=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...06X00812&key=1

[Stan Westbrook]

I would not have thought to look at the accident reports. I would like to have someone that has built and flown a Barnett design to chime in. Thanks for all of the input.

[WHY]

Hi Stan

Give Ron Menzie a PM about The two Barnett designs, he is a instructor and has flown both.

Tony

[Hognose]

I met Bob Kinney a couple years ago at Oshkosh, whatever year it was the first time he brought his HRH (which stands for Hot Rod Helicopter). He's very proud of his helicopter, which shows throughout a grown-up farm boy's innovation, adaptation, and natural problem-solving. It seemed to fly perfectly well (unlike a lot of experimental helicopters it really flew... a lot of them seem to hover but never get near ETL).

He was a great innovator and shade-tree mechanic, and it was impressive to see how his mind worked. He showed me parts he'd adapted from a Mercedes auto and a Ford Explorer, and his theme was to expose the mechanism of the craft and chrome it up and make it look awesome, like a hot rod.

On the other hand, I got the impression that he was not especially interested in selling kits or even plans. I think the ideal builder to take on an HRH project would be someone very like Bob, someone whose hands have known their way around engines and power transmission and irrigation pumps for a lifetime. Someone was representing the plans for him, maybe Neal at Rotorhawk?

Barnett J4B2
Jerrie Barnett makes several models all of which seem to be somewhat shortcoupled. There have also been some prangs of the side-by-side BRC 540 (one that has been repaired after a low-speed crash is now being used by Piasecki for UAV gyro research and development).

In addition to the mishaps listed above, one J4B2 prang at the end of April claimed the life of its pilot. It has been discussed in the accidents threads.

I'd be a little bit concerned about someone who doesn't know whether he wants to build a single-seat helo or a two-set gyro. You might want to learn more and get some demo flights before committing to the long-term upheaval in life that's an aircraft project.

This is kind of normal. Most people are attracted to the sport by the look of an aircraft or the emotions of what flying that aircraft might mean. As they learn more it's kind of normal to see their preferences evolve.

cheers

-=K=-

[c_bennish]

the ntsb report relating to the loss of control describes one of the pilot control inputs as a "cyclic" reduction..... Must be a pretty uncommon autogyro to have a cyclic stick. I must be too new to the sport to recognize some of the terms employed in the industry. I am SEL, helicopter, and glider rated.....but im always willing to learn something new...........

[Passin' Thru]

Originally Posted by c_bennish

the ntsb report relating to the loss of control describes one of the pilot control inputs as a "cyclic" reduction..... Must be a pretty uncommon autogyro to have a cyclic stick. I must be too new to the sport to recognize some of the terms employed in the industry. I am SEL, helicopter, and glider rated.....but im always willing to learn something new...........

.
HUH? Sir, in the 35 years I have been involved with gyros, every one I ever built or saw had cyclic control of one sort or another, but very few had COLLECTIVE. Are you sure you don't need another cup of coffee?

[c_bennish]

thats pretty funny....! I just never knew that the control stick of a gyro was refered to as a cyclic stick..... you dont call the stick in a fixed wing a cyclic stick, and the apparent cyclic stick in a gyro does not, as far as i can tell, manipulate a swash plate assembly like on a helo, causing individual blade pitch changes......if you would be so kind, please forgive my ignorance..... As a matter of record, except for perhaps jump capable gyros, none of the blades on a gyro are adjusted in flight, am I right?

lets see...a collective stick as I recall is the one manipulated by the left hand isnt it? and causes each blade to increase or decrease pitch at the same time? I think I have it straight. thanks

[pwendell]

[QUOTE=c_bennish;174376]thats pretty funny....! I just never knew that the control stick of a gyro was refered to as a cyclic stick..... you dont call the stick in a fixed wing a cyclic stick, and the apparent cyclic stick in a gyro does not, as far as i can tell, manipulate a swash plate assembly like on a helo, causing individual blade pitch changes......if you would be so kind, please forgive my ignorance..... /QUOTE]

Two-bladed, teetering rotors do not require a swash plate for cyclic control. The control rods can tilt the rotor head directly, which effectively alters the angle of attack of the rotor blades individually, which in turn causes them to "fly" into the desired position -- cyclic control.

[c_bennish]

well, not to beleaguer the point, but to ask this; it seems the gyro blades always act in opposition during maneuvering flight, in that while one blade is effectively flown to an elevated relative position, the other is always flown in the opposite direction no matter what stick input is entered (or vise versa)? Which seems perhaps cyclic in nature, but more correctly might be described as syncronized control, with equal and opposite directional flight being the hallmark of the blades paths.......so the stick might be called a syncronizing stick, due to the fact that the stick does not cycle the blades individually, but that it syncronizes the blades to always fly in opposite directions at the same time during maneuvering flight, whereas the additional influence of a collective stick in a helo might nulify the cyclic input to an individual blade, or that opposing blades might be pitched unequally + or - .

Sorry...just having some fun...thanks for the instruction...clyde

[Chuck Roberg]

This is from the Rotorcraft Flying Handbook. This is the FAA's description of "cyclic" control on a gyroplane. If you don't agree. You will have to argue with them.

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/a...-h-8083-21.pdf
goto page 160

Gyroplane Flight Controls

CYCLIC CONTROL
The cyclic control provides the means whereby you are
able to tilt the rotor system to provide the desired
results. Tilting the rotor system provides all control for
climbing, descending, and banking the gyroplane. The
most common method to transfer stick movement to
the rotor head is through push-pull tubes or flex cables.
[Figure 17-1] Some gyroplanes use a direct overhead
stick attachment rather than a cyclic, where a rigid control
is attached to the rotor hub and descends over and
in front of the pilot. [Figure 17-2] Because of the
nature of the direct attachment, control inputs with this
system are reversed from those used with a cyclic.
Pushing forward on the control causes the rotor disc to
tilt back and the gyroplane to climb, pulling back on
the control initiates a descent. Bank commands are
reversed in the same way.

[c_bennish]

wow...you're as sensative and active as a sas actuator in a hover..........take a rest boys....it ok........ someday you'll get to fly the real thing...............

Just kidding guys....I have about 10 minutes behind the stick (cyclic) of a 2 place dominator. I loved every minute of it. The only reason I have a helo endorsement is because I couldnt find a gyro in alaska. Im looking forward to taking some lessons in alabama though, this week maybe.....hope to see you all at mentone.......Ill be the guy drooling all over your half-helos.......

[Passin' Thru]

wow...you're as sensative and active as a sas actuator in a hover..........take a rest boys....it ok........ someday you'll get to fly the real thing...............

Clyde, I think you would surprised to learn how many gyro pilots here also fly "the real thing" as you call it. Any of them that I know will tell you that gyros are MUCH more fun. So your condescension is missplaced.