Powerplant For My Mini-500

bryancobb

bryancobb

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
5,337
Location
Cartersville, GA
Aircraft
Owned Brantly B-2b/Fly Kitfox III/Mini-500b
Total Flight Time
1350
I'm excited.

I bought this bluehead 582, off a Rans S-12 that was airworthy and flying up until the day before he shipped the engine to me. It has 120 TT and has been on this Rans since new. It was also connected to a Grand Rapids EIS since day one and that EIS came with it.

It HAD a C-box, Warp Drive 3-blade, a RK-400 Clutch, Jett-Hott'd Rotax Exhaust, 1 gallon Oil Tank, Sheilded Ignition, 5000 Ohm plug caps, and and Iridium Spark Plugs.

I nabbed all this for $3750 +$150 S&H. Then I removed everything I didn't want or need and sold them on the cheap for $2000 so....

I have $1750 in my 582 and EIS. I'm happy :yo:

I already have a PEP tuned exhaust to go on it.

MVC-002F_zpsb9247c05.jpg
 
Pulling the Clutch

Pulling the Clutch

Does anyone have a genuine Rotax Clutch Puller I could borrow? They are over $100. If not, I guess I'm gonna have to fabricate a clone of the ROTAX flywheel puller to get this RK-400 clutch body off my crankshaft. My Mini-500 clutch will take its place and the RK-400 is sold.

The puller I am using in the picture is not applying very much pressure so as to not damage the clutch body. Local heat with a propane torch didn't help.

The Rotax-Type puller doesn't apply the pull to the outer perimeter like this one does. The guys at Air-Tech, who make the RK-400 say I can use a hydraulic press on it without any damage.
 
Last edited:
From the pic, it appears there are threaded holes in the hub... Could you adapt and use an automotive harmonic balancer or steering wheel puller with some custom bolts?
 
GA Rotor Guy said:
From the pic, it appears there are threaded holes in the hub... Could you adapt and use an automotive harmonic balancer or steering wheel puller with some custom bolts?
Click to expand...


There ARE (3) M6 tapped holes to use for pulling. I suppose a H.B. puller will work, but the Rotax puller tightens up AGAINST the rear plate of the clutch housing to distribute any load so it won't bend the rear plate.

Air-Tech tells me that during some timeframes, these were installed dry, and at other timeframes, Rotax was requiring green locktite.

There's no way of knowing if THIS clutch has the locktite. He says if it does, it will be a beeeYitch to pull it off, even with the correct puller.

I do not want to do any harm to this clutch body because I have the clutch sold to a guy for $150 and the backplate alone is $180+ new.
 
Bryan
I would pull that puller off and heat up the tapper part of the clutch and than let it cool down, I would do that three or four times than put the puller on it heat it up, than apply pressure to the puller, it should pop at some point.
 
Thanks John.
Do ya think PB Blaster could get in there? Did UPS get your clamp jig to you?
 
Bryan, I saw somewhere that a 50/50 mix of automatic trans fluid and acetone beats PB Blaster by a long shot. Stan V
 
Bryan ... I hate like hell to say this here .... because sure as heck some redneck will go and grab a sledgehammer and smash something

However I have no worries about telling you my methods Bryan .... I have spent much of my life removing stubborn components that had to survive without being damaged.

If I was in your shop today I would use my very light snap-on autobody hammer and once some tension was on the puller ... I would "ring the bell"

Very gently I would tap the hub .... very lightly in several places .... plus lightly tap all the arms of the puller .... plus lightly tap the head of the tension bolt of the puller .... over and over again (patience) .... it would be a light tap .... not a heavy hit.

The microscopic vibrations will let the stuck molecules know it is time to move a hundred thousands of an inch.

Then I would do another very slight turn on the puller-tension-bolt and and I would again "ring the bell " .... with great patience and a gentle touch I would have that hub off if a few minutes ..... and there would not be a single hammer-mark on any of the components.

Torches and sledge hammers are for redneck musclemen who only fix things by destroying them .... and it works every time ... they have to go buy a new one :) .... I know that you do not repair in such a manner Bryan ... I just have a paranoia about muscle-men mechanics with sledge hammers !!

Bryan .... go out to your shop and grab a high quality tool .... hold it lightly in your fingers and give it a light tap with another tool .... it will ring for a long time ... like a tuning fork ..... it will ring like a bell .... the ringing is a vibration .... most often found in higher quality metals .... which of course your hub is made of .... and your puller is too.

The only time I would use heat was if there was locktite present that can only be released by using heat .... and that usually is less than 600*f ... and I doubt the hub-to-crank was installed with locktite.

For practise take your wife's finest crystal champagne glass from her china cabinet .... give it a gentle tap with your fine light hammer from your shop .... it will "sing" for a long time .... (vibrate) .... if you can do that you will never damage your 503 hub or your puller tools.

The key is the vibrations .... which the molecules see as an "impact"

Anyone who needs to prove the value of vibrating-impacts should grab a powerful impact gun and hold the socket in their hand and pull the trigger .... it will not turn (low force)

Put that same impact gun and socket on the toughest rusted fastener and in a few seconds it will be releasing.

Same thing.

I have demonstrated this hundreds of times and very few folks understand it .... I expect you probably will Bryan .... best wishes ... ask me any questions you want ... wish I was in your shop to actually do it for you.

I should have been born in Missouri .... :)
 
bryancobb said:
Thanks John.
Do ya think PB Blaster could get in there? Did UPS get your clamp jig to you?
Click to expand...

Bryan.
I have never use PB Blaster before so I don't know. I have heard of Stan V's half and half but have never used it either. Yes got the jig back yesterday late. Thanks for the glue and primer you sent and if you need anything else just let me know. Oh I do have the tail rotor gearbox cases I will send to you, but it will be next week late before I can go back to town to ship them to you. I'm a little busy here at the shop.
 
Good Night John-Boy!

Good Night John-Boy!

MH1FLYER said:
... but it will be next week late before I can go back to town...
Click to expand...

You sound like the Dad on The Waltons! LOL...What? You live on Walton Mountain and a trip into town takes a couple of days??
 
bryancobb said:
You sound like the Dad on The Waltons! LOL...What? You live on Walton Mountain and a trip into town takes a couple of days??
Click to expand...

Brian,
That's funny LOL. I use to watch that all the time when I was young. Yes it's a trip off the mountain and I have to shut down my shop to go to town and that cost me big time.
 
Arnie Madsen said:
Bryan ... I hate like hell to say this here .... because sure as heck some redneck will go and grab a sledgehammer and smash something

However I have no worries about telling you my methods Bryan .... I have spent much of my life removing stubborn components that had to survive without being damaged.

If I was in your shop today I would use my very light snap-on autobody hammer and once some tension was on the puller ... I would "ring the bell"

Very gently I would tap the hub .... very lightly in several places .... plus lightly tap all the arms of the puller .... plus lightly tap the head of the tension bolt of the puller .... over and over again (patience) .... it would be a light tap .... not a heavy hit.

The microscopic vibrations will let the stuck molecules know it is time to move a hundred thousands of an inch.

Then I would do another very slight turn on the puller-tension-bolt and and I would again "ring the bell " .... with great patience and a gentle touch I would have that hub off if a few minutes ..... and there would not be a single hammer-mark on any of the components.

Torches and sledge hammers are for redneck musclemen who only fix things by destroying them .... and it works every time ... they have to go buy a new one :) .... I know that you do not repair in such a manner Bryan ... I just have a paranoia about muscle-men mechanics with sledge hammers !!

Bryan .... go out to your shop and grab a high quality tool .... hold it lightly in your fingers and give it a light tap with another tool .... it will ring for a long time ... like a tuning fork ..... it will ring like a bell .... the ringing is a vibration .... most often found in higher quality metals .... which of course your hub is made of .... and your puller is too.

The only time I would use heat was if there was locktite present that can only be released by using heat .... and that usually is less than 600*f ... and I doubt the hub-to-crank was installed with locktite.

For practise take your wife's finest crystal champagne glass from her china cabinet .... give it a gentle tap with your fine light hammer from your shop .... it will "sing" for a long time .... (vibrate) .... if you can do that you will never damage your 503 hub or your puller tools.

The key is the vibrations .... which the molecules see as an "impact"

Anyone who needs to prove the value of vibrating-impacts should grab a powerful impact gun and hold the socket in their hand and pull the trigger .... it will not turn (low force)

Put that same impact gun and socket on the toughest rusted fastener and in a few seconds it will be releasing.

Same thing.

I have demonstrated this hundreds of times and very few folks understand it .... I expect you probably will Bryan .... best wishes ... ask me any questions you want ... wish I was in your shop to actually do it for you.

I should have been born in Missouri .... :)
Click to expand...

Brilliant Arnie, Yeah that's right!!
 
bryancobb said:
There ARE (3) M6 tapped holes to use for pulling. I suppose a H.B. puller will work, but the Rotax puller tightens up AGAINST the rear plate of the clutch housing to distribute any load so it won't bend the rear plate.

Air-Tech tells me that during some timeframes, these were installed dry, and at other timeframes, Rotax was requiring green locktite.

There's no way of knowing if THIS clutch has the locktite. He says if it does, it will be a beeeYitch to pull it off, even with the correct puller.

I do not want to do any harm to this clutch body because I have the clutch sold to a guy for $150 and the backplate alone is $180+ new.
Click to expand...

If there is lock-tite in there... you are gonna have some fun with it... :)

Read the guy at the bottom, the long post about applying pressure with the puller and tapping with a hammer to create resonance to loosen it. IMO a good idea! copious amounts of penetrating oil (whichever you choose) probably would be a good idea also.

Since the tapped holes are close to the hub in the center, I would consider using a puller with bolts... as the pulling load is closer to the center and less bending force on the plate.

I know I am not telling anyone anything they do not already know: Patience is the key word... :)

Let us know what you do and how it works.

GA
 
You guys are great. I can see that you imagine being in my position as you type. I will apply as much patience as I can muster and hopefully the guy who bought the clutch will understand the delay on getting his stuff.

He's waiting on the gearbox, muffler, prop, and other little things I didn't need.
 
Power And hopefully Reliability

Power And hopefully Reliability

bryancobb said:
...
MVC-002F_zpsb9247c05.jpg
Click to expand...

When I flew my Mini-500, 100 hours, in the late 1990's, I never had ONE SMIDGE of engine trouble. Power was adequate most of the time, but sometimes you had to be really really careful to avoid writing an overdrawn check on Power Needed Bank. In the early hours, I had one scary time when I let rotor RPM get below that point where the Rotax could recover it. I was lifting over a 4 ft pasture fence and barely cleared it and the helicopter was sinking. I nosed forward and slid it onto the ground without incident or damage. I shutdown the helicopter and thoroughly investigated what had happened so it didn't happen again. I made sure I didn't do THAT again and never had another problem.

It was equipped with the stock exhaust (1st picture). Probably had 65HP. The ship weighed 518#, I weighed 190#, 15 gals gas.

This time around, my goal is 499# for this helicopter and 185# for me.
Also, I will have the PEP tuned exhaust (2nd Picture) which was dyno'd at 80+HP.

My hope is to have the same level of reliability as I did before, hover and fly using less horsepower than I did back then, and have MUCH more power available for low RPM recovery, hovering, and climbout on those hot days when I was on the "ragged edge" in the 90's.


stockmufflernotPEP_zpsff02a229.jpg

100_5611_zpsfae3ca93.jpg


FEB1998RevolutionNewsletterALLABOUTPEP_Page_1.jpg
FEB1998RevolutionNewsletterALLABOUTPEP_Page_2.jpg
 
Last edited:
bryancobb said:
You guys are great. I can see that you imagine being in my position as you type. I will apply as much patience as I can muster and hopefully the guy who bought the clutch will understand the delay on getting his stuff.

He's waiting on the gearbox, muffler, prop, and other little things I didn't need.
Click to expand...

Brian, are you a member of PRA Ch 56? I am kinda new to gyro's (private pilot since 1980). Wondering if I have met you at RB Russel airport and do not remember.
 
No sir. Not a member. Came to one of you guys fly-ins a couple of months ago. Maybe we met but I don't remember. I was with a blonde guy with a long pony tail named Barney Bahle.
 
bryancobb said:
No sir. Not a member. Came to one of you guys fly-ins a couple of months ago. Maybe we met but I don't remember. I was with a blonde guy with a long pony tail named Barney Bahle.
Click to expand...

I think we did meet... I am the blond (fading) guy with a beard. If I remember, you and I talked motorcycles as well as aviation. Come on by in Sept if you have time; First Saturday of Sept at the EAA building on the back side of RBR airport. Breakfast until 9-ish and good times.

I bought a bunch of Gryo parts a few weeks ago, I have a project now... :) Hope to have it ready by late Oct/Nov. Would love to see your project sometime if that works out.

John/GA
 
Looks like the previous owner was running pretty rich an oily to me. The ring grooves are great though.

Iridium Fine Wire plugs are a little too black for my liking.

MVC-001F_zps979b27ba.jpg
 
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