Keep your eyes open

[Gyro_Kai]

The following article reports on a crash between an MTO gyroplane and a sailplane. It was an uncontrolled airport and the MTO got a "start at your own disgression".

Missing the landing sailplane the gyro started, colliding in a few meters height, chopping 3 m off one wing. While the gyroplane landed without problems, the sailplane crashed, injuring the pilot who was taken to hospital.

http://translate.google.de/translate...t-2382301.html

Kai.

[Mike484]

Lucky it wasn't worse, hope the sail plane pilot comes out OK. It's amazing how the MTO looks totally unscathed.

[i3 roberto]

Here a hela cut the cabin and rails with out damage of a 2 tons small truck it was close to San Miguel in sugar canne aplication lanstrip the curiose stpd truck driver dont look the rotor spining and hit the spray bars and then the hiro cut the branches of a small tree he was minimum damage in the gyro for the aparatosus accident http://flotilla-aerea.com/page/9/ the Salvadorean Air force change the accident version but not too much .......

[Gogona]

I don't think it may be a topical issue for Germany, but in some countries, where gyroplanes are really unpopular (like in Canada) people don't know their abilities and expect they can take-off and land vertically. And that creates some problems at the airports, even with air traffic controllers, not talking about other pilots!

However, a glider has no chance for go around, moreover, ANY landing aircraft has a priority, no matter does it have an engine or it doesn't. So I feel really sorry for the glider pilot, cause definitely, that wasn't his fault. And here is a good lesson to learn for us

[Vance]

Please help me understand, as I read this it appears to be a towered airport and the gyroplane had take off clearance.

Is that correct?

Was the glider in radio contact with ATC?

In the pictures it does not look like a controlled airport.

I could not find the identifer for the airport to see what the facilities are.

Thank you, Vance

[ckurz7000]

Hi Vance,

in Germany, for you legally to take off from an uncontrolled airport, there must at least be a designated "Chief of Operations" present. He is responsible to coordinate all flight and ground operations on the airport. That is somewhat similar to a towered airport but legally he doesn't issue clearances. He just advises people what to do. It makes a difference on your insurance claim whether you followed or disregarded his advice. But otherwise it is like a non-towered airport.

This accident happened on such a non-towered airport with a Chief of Operations who told the gyro pilot to "take off at own discretion." Translated, this statement means something like, "I don't see any problem with your taking off any time you like." The pilot bears full responsibility for see and avoid. He has NOT received a clearance for take off, nor is one necessary.

Waldeck is a typical airport used primarily for gliding and winch starting. It has a 2600 ft grass runway. At this airport a radio is not required. The glider didn't need to contact anyone for landing.

According to a German forum member who talked to the involved gyro pilot, the collision happened approximately 65 ft in the air when the gyro was on climb out. The pilot in the glider was still a student.

That's the facts as I gleaned them from unofficial sources.

Greetings, -- Chris.

[Vance]

I suspected there was more to it than simply pulling out in front of someone.

That is a good reminder to look more carefully where I don't expect people to be.

I would not expect a glider to be that high far enough down the strip for me to be at 65 feet AGL on such a short landing strip.

I suspect the glider pilot pulled his brakes and pulled up when he saw trouble coming not knowing how long a gyroplane pre-rotates or how fast a gyroplane climbs.

It is amazing to me that the gyroplane was able to make a controlled landing after an impact like that.

Santa Ynez is a glider port and the gliders use an opposite pattern and land in line with but before the paved runway begins.

I will have to watch and ponder.

Part of why I want a better prerotator is so I spend less time on the runway spinning up to take off with the potential threat at my six o’clock.

Thank you, Vance

[ckurz7000]

Originally Posted by Vance

I would not expect a glider to be that high far enough down the strip for me to be at 65 feet AGL on such a short landing strip.

This is exactly my train of thought. With brakes pulled, a glider might have an L/D of 15:1. Considering that the gyro will have been about 700 feet down the runway at that altitude already, it puts the glider near the end of the runway by the time its wheels are stopped. It was a student pilot and hence, maybe, he misjudged his approach or hedged it on the high side. It would have put the glider in a position where the gyro pilot might not have expected it when he was scanning for approaching traffic.

Also, it is not uncommon for gliders and other aircraft to share a wide runway side by side, just as if it were two parallel runways. If the gyro -- unaware of the approaching glider -- turned too soon, it might have encroached upon the glider's trajectory and caused the accident.

In any case, we can only speculate and try to learn from each scenario that we conjure up in our sand box speculations....

Greetings, -- Chris.