Vortech aluminum blades

AIRCTOM

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Has anyone flown the Vortech extruded one piece rotor blades ? They seem to have received good reviews back in May 1997 Rotorcraft magazine. The concept of a blade with less flap seems to be good. Less chance of flap causing a rotor strike on a hard landing.
I am not looking for opinions. I am looking for facts and real experience.

Tom
 
It is my understanding that Larry Neal is now using the Vortech extruded Rotorblades on his Golden Butterfly with the folding Rotor system. He seems to be very happy with them.

Gyro Doug
 
I have no trouble with them I have many hours on a set. That started as a 28' set and now are 24'4" and still flying.
 
Has anyone flown the Vortech extruded one piece rotor blades ? They seem to have received good reviews back in May 1997 Rotorcraft magazine. The concept of a blade with less flap seems to be good. Less chance of flap causing a rotor strike on a hard landing.
I am not looking for opinions. I am looking for facts and real experience.

Tom

Buy a pair of Dragon Wing blades from Ernie and you will remember me.
I think even prise wise Vortech are more expensive if you consider the extra cost of a hub.
What kind of gyro do you have/build?
 
I believe the blades are not currently available. Neal Carnes has passed away. (see other thread)
 
I just bought a set about 2 months ago, I havn't flown them yet. Probably won't until spring.
 
Has anyone flown the Vortech extruded one piece rotor blades ? They seem to have received good reviews back in May 1997 Rotorcraft magazine. The concept of a blade with less flap seems to be good. Less chance of flap causing a rotor strike on a hard landing.
I am not looking for opinions. I am looking for facts and real experience.

Tom

At first glance I liked the looks of the pressure injected aluminum extruded rotor blade marketed by Vortex many years ago. . It was like a dream come true . A designer could pencil out a blade that could be manufactured as one molded piece .

It seemed like a brilliant solution that did not require all the spars and skins and adhesives and honeycomb bonded together to make a rotor blade like the current helicopter and gyro-copter manufacturers do.

Behind every brilliant idea lurks a snag or two.

Unfortunately it turns out that the snags in a metal extruded rotor blade have a lot of complicated metallurgy that I am not qualified to describe properly. A tiny flaw in the injection process could form a crack or weak spot in the chord-wise span of the blade that we everyday pilots would not notice.

Chord is a word that describes a cross section of a blade .

Injected or extruded aluminum components are widely used in the marketplace. Your screen door frame is made that way.. But it is not a good idea to use it in critical components such as rotor blades.

Many different methods have been employed in the manufacture of rotor blades. Modern day uses sophisticated composite glass and fiber molded to extremely high tolerances and quality control. They are still subject to problems that crop up from time to time.

For absolutely dependable rotor blades you end up looking at 1950's to 1960's designs that still fly today. They are multiple metal components bonded together.

Some smaller manufacturers have developed specialized blades for unique applications with success.

Leading edge research still hunts for the perfect rotor blade that can be squirted out of a nice mold. That day has not arrived. Squirting aluminum out of an extrusion mold was not the answer.
 
Extruded masts

Extruded masts

Arnie,

The majority of the common size aluminum square tubes used on the bolt together gyros are extruded. I would call the mast a critical component. Like anything else, the manufacturing quality determines the suitability for use.


Larry
 
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Interesting

Interesting

Jon,
I haven't done an analysis, but I suspect that if the masts were so lightly loaded someone would have made them smaller a long time ago.
Larry
 
Larry,

As I understand it, they can't extrude the proper alloy either(I may be wrong).

I don't want to argue about extruded blades. I've said what I think about them in the past. I don't want to dig into it again. No offense.

Jon
 
keep in mind the Vortech blades as you are refering to them are not owned by vortech,they were just the sales contact. they where Rotorhawk blades. I hate Vortech has given them a name used by vortech. I would like to state they where first called fleck Rotors, they where tested by a Guy in canada on a Rotorway exec. for years.

the only bad issue was a set that the buyer did not install the spar in right and the spar slung out in flight and of course the gyro crashed and killed the guy.
many people have flown these blades safely. if you know of other crashes due to the blade being extruded I would like to hear about them since I am involved with the company that sells them.
I would not have any problem feeling safe to fly them on my commuter.

now that said, I have just learned that the foundry that extruded them no longer has the forms. and that is part of a legal battle as that was part of the sale of Rotorhawk company. I do know Anthony dose have 2 crates full of these blades and Spars.

also note there are a few Gyros from over seas that come from the factory with extruded blades so i think it is strange how Vortech blades get singled out.

then again I hate to say it but Vortech gives them a bad name.

I personnly think they sound be refered to as the Fleck Rotors,as I did not even know they where Neals blades until I asked him if they where like the fleck Rotors and he then told me he had bought out Fleck.

also for the guys with Air commands that still have the sky wheels rotorhub.

the Vorteck/fleck blade with a bit of fileing the trailing edge will fit the stock sky wheels hub.

I have instructions around here somewhere. on how it is done.
 

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No argument here

No argument here

Jon,

I have no desire to argue either. You have a vested position regarding rotor blades, it's no surprise you feel yours are the best.

I have followed the discussion of the extruded blades for several years. There is no intrinsic reason why extruded blades cannot be satisfactory for sport flying. However, the devil is in the details.

You make rotors everyday, Ernie makes rotors everyday. How often do they make the extruded rotors?

Extruded aluminum tube is manufactured in large quantities. Many varieties of aluminum can be extruded satisfactorily, 6061 is a commonly extruded alloy, it is done everyday. In the big aluminum plants, consistency and quality can be monitored and kept under control.

When the production runs are short and intermittent it is very difficult to maintain consistency and quality. That doesn't mean it can't be done. But to expect the price break common to long runners without extensive inspection costs and high reject rates may not be realistic.

Like many other manufacturing operations, it's never as simple as it seems on the outside.

Larry
 
When the production runs are short and intermittent it is very difficult to maintain consistency and quality. That doesn't mean it can't be done. But to expect the price break common to long runners without extensive inspection costs and high reject rates may not be realistic.

Like many other manufacturing operations, it's never as simple as it seems on the outside.

Larry

Those are some of the reasons why we didn't go that route.

I understand your view. But there are other aspects to it, such as protecting the aluminum from the inside (corrosion proofing)

Jon
 
Please guys, by all means, argue away, it may save lives . . .
One point is price, I thought they were cheaper, the extruded kind.
Another is electronic check for bad spots on the blade, some kind of ray . . .
But lets keep the eye on the ball and compare after we agreed that extruded is viable and safe.
Thanks
Heron
 
Hubs,

Hubs,

I believe the only hub you can safely use with the skywheels / McCutchens is the long (5') Hub, or the smaller one is only good to so many feet. Just a mention, its been a number of years since I worked with one, but if you put too long a blade in the hub, the stress will fracture the hub.

Unless prices have changed drastically, it seemed that the prices were so out of hand it was better to go buy a set of sport copter or dw's and be done with it.

Epoxying the leading spar is a critical issue and has been mentioned that release of the spar resulted in a fatal crash. I think in addition to epoxy, hard fasteners, NOT pop rivets would also be a good idea.

There is also the issue of the material being a T6063 which limits them in time to less than 1000 hours which might be overly generous. 6063 is a architectural grade, not a structural grade material.

When the blades were cheap, it there was a payoff, but since they have climbed in price, I am not so sure that they are a bargain.

Also, designers have penciled out great shapes, and one even went so far as to have a bunch of expensive extrusions made, STOLO blades were made, and it was quickly pointed out they had a negative situation where they cold tuck at high speeds and were taken off the market, last I heard. PRA had a nice article about them but like all things that looked good on paper, the the airfoil was only good for fixed wing operation not the high tip speeds of rotorcraft. Be warned......I am sure it was an expensive mistake for that fellow....

Good luck

J
 
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