Taking off is hard

chrisk

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
440
Location
Round Rock TX
Aircraft
Magni M24, Turbo Mooney 231
Total Flight Time
1000
Just had my second gyroplane lesson. The Magni M16 flys like a dream. Landing is really pretty easy. Taking off is quite a bit harder.
 
Well it's not hard there are more procedures than a FW.
But a few time and it will seem easy as you memorize.

At first I too would forget a step after a few months between lessons / Fly-ins but your listening to the instructor and sometimes it is distracting when they are off the subject while you first learning but they think you got it because you just did it twice and then I forgot a step.

When I stayed in UT after ROTOR fly-in for a week or so and trained with Micheal I think it was easier to learn and I hope retain it. I'm flying with Vance after a long break so we will see. I'll let you know if my theory is correct. You really do not know until you try, I do say and follow the procedure while I'm flying my desk chair gyroplane. This really helps!
 
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Hi Chris
riding a bike is hard the first few times you give it a go,
just put the hours in and it will come, go through it in the brain on the ground, better still sitting in the gyro (engine off).
if you can fill in your profile a bit more it will help, do you come from a non=flying background, PPG or fixed wing, if you fill all that stuff in it will help others to understand where you are coming from.
Do please keep us informed about your thoughts and progress. and most important do exactly as your chosen instructor says.
 
You are in excellent hands with Dayton!

You are in excellent hands with Dayton!

Just had my second gyroplane lesson. The Magni M16 flys like a dream. Landing is really pretty easy. Taking off is quite a bit harder.
:welcome:
Hmmm ...I was a 55yo "never-flew anything before" student when I started gyro lessons ... the TO ...seemed easy & the landings VERY hard ... to get right - for a long time! As you are already a seasoned pilot ... the landing sight picture & flare point probably come much easier! :yo:

I can feel your gyro-grinning from here! :D
I switched it up yesterday - after flying our Titanium so much recently ...as it's such a joy & in the front seat ...nice and cosy in the coolish weather! I took my Butterfly "OZ'rora" out to stretch her wings yesterday ... had the most fun all year in it ... got back in tune with the hot-rod agile singleseater!
After 4 years ... NO never gets OLD! ...still grinn'n like fool after those "magic-flights" :D :D :D
 
As you learn you will relax more and more. However if you fly other models you will find that some procedures can be easier then others. For instance I am not fond of starting the take off sequence in an RAF or Sparrowhawk. Kind of a handfull but the Titanium, MTO, and Arrowcopter are much simpler.
 
I fly an RAF and the takeoffs required a lot of attention in the beginning,but after a while

they become easy,just be patient and they will come around.

I have flown about 600 hrs in the last 4 years and now I feel flying a Gyro is the safest

machine in the air.I fly just about every day,the fun is still there.




Best regards,
 
Yeah Chris, At first take off can be a bit over whelming, and ya think will i ever get this S#!t together then all of a sudden ya doing it with out the instructor barking at ya " full power, keep it straight, watch ya speed, 500, watch ya tail.
Yeah i remember banging the MTO tail on the runway and months later i was reminded of the scratch i put on the frame. I said should put a nylon pad on the under side. He said how about ya don't bang the F@#K'n tail on the runway. I recon he wasn't over it yet. So lesson is wait for it when shes ready she will fly when front wheel pops hold it on mains roll on enough power and your away...Simple. Eventually your instructor will be quiet that means he has nothing to say you are flying well. Just keep at it as ya brain is putting it all away and eventually it becomes automatic. And ya brain has given you time to take in the views and think about possible nude hot chicks around the corner on the beach 9:00 o'clock and best altitude required, Well maybe just me but keep at it if ya think landing is easy ya 75% there anyway. landing is supposed to be more difficult so ya got it bagged..
Mike.
 
Always felt that barking at students was counter productive, and poor instructional technique. Take offs, along with landings are critical phases of flight and any unnecessary distraction is dangerous/stupid.

It will all fall into place Chris, just take a bit of time, and also practise it in a stationary shut down gyro going over the steps in your mind.
 
Yeah maybe a bit intense at times but very regimented and thorough with a lot of good information i have in use today. I know today my instructor could read me well and knew my progress. His training program was well implemented and thorough and I'm glad for that now as it makes safe flight. Barking...call it clear instruction..at times he let me get it wrong and briefed on how i got it wrong and how and why.one example straight n level/side slip. If he hadn't let me side slip i may have learned the hard way but now have a good understanding how to read it and avoid it or at least be careful. Side slip is not recommended here in ozzie land as it's considered dangerous flight procedure.
 
Hi Chris, what you are experiencingis pretty normal for a beginning student. Don't stress yourself or start to feel bad about it. The important part is to relax and enjoy the training because with a positive and relaxed state of mind learning comes much easier.

That said, you should talk to your CFI and give him feedback about what is hard for you and what comes easy. That kind of feedback is important information to the CFI and will (should) influence the way he is teaching you. He might adjust the stream of new information in various stages of the flight, give you more time, provide you with suggested reading, talk with you about it during ground school, etc, etc.

Greetings, -- Chris.
 
My instructor is very aware of where I have a difficult time. I'm basically over controlling the gyro on take off. To much is changing to fast, and I have not yet learned the proper level of stick motion, or the response of the machine. --But each take off is getting better.

I recall a very similar experience when learning to land a Cessna 152 years ago. When the plane was slow it was sloppy. You want to go a little to the right, so you turn that way, and then nothing. Add some more correction, then some more. All of the sudden, the plane responds and now there is way too much correction. I think the same is happening with the gyro. --It will sort itself out.
 
It's possible you might get some good information from ground rotor handling. This would be taxi work with rotor in motion so you get good at flying the disk on the ground. Then balancing on the mains. Each take off then becomes smoother and not a process of trying to keep control.
 
I agree, Desmon. Working up to a takeoff by practicing balancing on the mains and crow hopping first seems to teach people a lot. Rotor management, stick feeling and slow speeds and proper takeoffs are just a few to mention.

-- Chris.
 
Im on my solos in a cavalon, on my last flight i seem to of developed a waggle, bouncing from 1 main to the other in fast progression on the take off roll.
Im on a short field with obstructions, so i have to adopt the short field take off procedure so every thqing is happening quite fast. On going through it in my head i do temember i started to crab left as i was going down the field, i also had a cross wind of approx 5 mph on the right, just as the waggle started happening the nose shot up for the second time on lowering it i went aitborne literally jumped off the run way. I think i held it too long on the runway and the drift put the mains out of line and this started the waggle. Speed when it lifted was 65 mph, and it was pointing slightly to the left when it went airborne. Thoughts
 
Im on my solos in a cavalon, on my last flight i seem to of developed a waggle, bouncing from 1 main to the other in fast progression on the take off roll.
Im on a short field with obstructions, so i have to adopt the short field take off procedure so every thqing is happening quite fast. On going through it in my head i do temember i started to crab left as i was going down the field, i also had a cross wind of approx 5 mph on the right, just as the waggle started happening the nose shot up for the second time on lowering it i went aitborne literally jumped off the run way. I think i held it too long on the runway and the drift put the mains out of line and this started the waggle. Speed when it lifted was 65 mph, and it was pointing slightly to the left when it went airborne. Thoughts

From your description I suspect your cyclic was not positioned correctly for the cross wind and you were trying to fix it with your rudder.

When I fly solo in a Cavalon (240 pound pilot) the left wheel lifts first and if things were not lined up well she would dance.

If this is the problem practicing using your cyclic to control your location and your rudder to control the direction your nose is pointed may help.

With practice you will get better at coordinating the controls.

In my opinion delaying your lift off exacerbated the challenge.

I would have aborted the takeoff or allowed her to get away from the ground sooner. In other words I would have used the soft field takeoff technique.

I would find a longer field to practice on until I gained experience.

Learn the skills before you need them rather than needing them before you have them.

What did you yaw string indicate?

Have you practiced there with your instructor?

If not have your instructor demonstrate a takeoff there under similar conditions.
 
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Vance,
The previous solo i felt things were not getting better, i went up with the instructor and all was perfect, no faults etc, i assume the extra weight helped, he could not find an issue.
On the string every thing went a bit blured on the dance, i remember seeing 300 on the rotor thats about it, not the string, but i was devenatly way off balance pure pilot error and i dont mind admitting it, i seem to be getting worse solo than better. I have done 9 hrs solo now, the flight s fine i have started to land scewiff ad well, to the left, i put this down to not enough correction to the right pedal when power is shut off, we suffer a lot of x wind take offs and landings here that should hone my skills but alas im getting worse. I have made the desision to not fly now untill the instructor has flown it solo as getting nervous about it, am 2 weeks from my gst, so need to get confident in the machine that it is ok. No locations close by to practice on a long strip, ours is 430 mtrs, with trees at 1 end, the other is wires and a house at the other. Fine if in the tiger moth which i regularly fly, but the cavalon needs soo much longer to get airborne
 
A couple of suggestions:

Find a longer runway, close or not.
Postpone the GFT till you are comfortably ready.

It seems you are putting yourself under pressure.
Approaching GFT, short runway, low solo time.
Whatever was happening on your takeoff runs, you were not ahead of the aircraft.

Take a step back, and re-evaluate.
 
I believe that if you have 300 RRPM you are already flying, however the wheels are still in

contact with the ground causing all sorts of problems.



Best regards,
 
Gary,

In my opinion, EI-GYRO is bang on.

It seems to me you are trying learn under advanced conditions without feeling comfortable with the basics. Your gut is telling you that you are not ready, so listen to your gut. Delay the GFT until YOU are ready for it.

You need a long runway and probably need to learn to progress the take-off technique with a lower power setting - which you don't want to do now because of your short TODA. Your landing strip will seem more 'doable' when you have mastered the basics, have had plenty of practice and also have had some serious thoughts about Gyroplane performance factors.

You are not there yet. Take it slow and ask your instructor to take you to an airfield where you can learn in a benign environment before taking on your 'A-Level' field.

PM or email me if you want more advice, but your own instructor should be able to help with finding somewhere suitable.

Bottom line is you should feel entirely comfortable before you take the GFT.

Fly safe.
 
Cheers guys, yes this is what is going to happen, instructor is coming today to test fly the gyro so i know its me thats crap. Then we are going off to another location later next week to practice normal and short field again, then have a go at my field. Gft is now on hold till i can get back into the swing of it, every thing else is sorted, just need some lead in my right boot . And confidence back
 
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