My new Super-Duper Prerotator engagement device

Nope

Nope

not in any way was I trashing Dennis's system.. I was only telling what had happened to me .

Don't fool yourself Lee into thinking it can't happen.. next time you go out and fly,, You Gonna Think about it.. That's all I ask anyone to do.

Murphy's Law is alway's something to think about.. Would you agree??

Thanks Tim I did see that but as I have said,

If I don't relay something to anyone flying gyro's that could be a safety issue, then what good would I be... It happened to me and thats all there is too it..

Can I fly a gyro Dennis ? "NAW" Probably not to the standards and proficiency level that You would want in demonstrating the versatility of your machine. And I'll live to get over it just as you will.

"No" I sure won't apoligise that "I instruct students" to Fly Safe and "NOT ATTEMPT" to copy cat professionals with BooKoo hours like yourself, before they're time or ever at all..


Steve

The unmodified Wunderlich prerotator has double redundancy against failure to disengage. There's the manually-operated rubber wheel clutch at the lower end, the Bendix drop-out feature at the upper end and an overrun ratchet inside the Bendix. Some other prerotator makes eliminate the internal overrunning ratchet, for reasons I don't understand.

When using a Wunderlich, I've kept the handle squeezed all the way through breaking ground ever since Ed Alderfer clued me in to the idea around 20 years ago. Occasionally there will be a bit of torque-yaw and excitement on liftoff, but most of the time the Bendix will have dropped out as the rotor runs away from it, before the mains are off. You can tell when this happens, of course, because the engine surges and the gear clatter stops.

The prerotator gear ratio on the S-Hawk may be very different than on little gyros, leading to Steve's out-of-control torque adventure.

Dick DeGraw's full-time power feed to the rotor on his D-Bird sends a fair percentage (up to 40%?) of engine power to the rotor in flight. Apparently the tail surfaces can handle that much torque, so the much lower torque from a Wunderlich ought to be manageable.

Newbies should work up to this technique gradually, though. The yaw adds pilot workload.

Steve McGowan said:

not in any way was I trashing Dennis's system.. I was only telling what had happened to me .

Don't fool yourself Lee into thinking it can't happen.. next time you go out and fly,, You Gonna Think about it.. That's all I ask anyone to do.

Murphy's Law is alway's something to think about.. Would you agree??

Thanks Tim I did see that but as I have said,

If I don't relay something to anyone flying gyro's that could be a safety issue, then what good would I be... It happened to me and thats all there is too it..

Can I fly a gyro Dennis ? "NAW" Probably not to the standards and proficiency level that You would want in demonstrating the versatility of your machine. And I'll live to get over it just as you will.

"No" I sure won't apoligise that "I instruct students" to Fly Safe and "NOT ATTEMPT" to copy cat professionals with BooKoo hours like yourself, before they're time or ever at all..


Steve

Click to expand...

Sauer puss ! The man didn’t invent nothing, but is a nice modification well presented and safe PR looking device. I suggest, if you have something against the man, use your private messages and don’t spoil it for others. By the way , he is not selling it to anyone.

CLS447 said:

Dennis, that is a very cool system ! When did the larger diameter drum start being used? Did you make the drum ?

Click to expand...

Yes I whittled out the drum too, but I just copied it from the one the new Air Command made for their prerotator. They did that a few years ago, I'm not sure when.

CLS447 said:

Did you see the mods that I did on my 503 with C-box ? I am now using the lever with the teleflex cable. The lever is right next to the throttle lever.
I need to install a roll pin through the lever spacer bushings on the throttle quadrant because the throttle is following the prerotator lever back. Do you know what I mean ? Any tips on keeping the levers working independantly ?

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As I remember you were using the same point of pivot as the throttle. Yes, that would be a problem, if I remember it correctly. I believe the roll pin should do the trick.

Fritz-
Steve is by no-means what you called him.
Steve and Dennis are two powerhouses of the industry and are part of an elite handful of the last great Gyro veterans that are still with us here today. Show some respect, their big boys and sometimes have disagreements but at the end of they day they both share the passion for flying and keeping the sport safe.

B8MFlorida said:

Fritz-
Steve is by no-means what you called him.
Steve and Dennis are two powerhouses of the industry and are part of an elite handful of the last great Gyro veterans that are still with us here today. Show some respect, their big boys and sometimes have disagreements but at the end of they day they both share the passion for flying and keeping the sport safe.

Click to expand...

Thank you,All very true

Dennis,

how does the bendix get lifted when you engage? is there an additional switch? I'm just wondering because I only know systems where this "lift" is either via separate manual switch (Xenon) or automatic via pneumatics for a short time (MT03). I couldn't find out from the pictures and descriptions, how this one works.

Thanks,
Kai.

What happens when...

What happens when...

Dennis,

What happens when the motor burns out with the pre rotator engaged ?

Nice setup put a cable on a handle is the only way to go. If it breaks, it is not going to cause major problems.

I have had trim motors burn like those lose a relay or a contact at the most inopportune time......



Jonathan

Gyro_Kai said:

Dennis,

how does the bendix get lifted when you engage? is there an additional switch? I'm just wondering because I only know systems where this "lift" is either via separate manual switch (Xenon) or automatic via pneumatics for a short time (MT03). I couldn't find out from the pictures and descriptions, how this one works.

Thanks,
Kai.

Click to expand...

As soon as the Bendix begins to spin, it has a helical thread inside that will lift it into the ring gear. The drag of the power being transfered will hold it up into position until that transfer is complete, and then it will drop back down. It's all nice and automatic.

automan1223 said:

Dennis,

What happens when the motor burns out with the pre rotator engaged ?

Nice setup put a cable on a handle is the only way to go. If it breaks, it is not going to cause major problems.

I have had trim motors burn like those lose a relay or a contact at the most inopportune time......
Jonathan

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Nothing would happen at all. So what if you had to takeoff with the prerotator engaged. As soon as it's ready the Bendix will disengage and drop down. There is very little horse power used if there is no transfer of power, so the wheel and flex-shaft can run for hours and hours and hours with do ill effect whatsoever.

Oh Contrair Fritz !!

Oh Contrair Fritz !!

Fritz said:

Sauer puss ! The man didn’t invent nothing, but is a nice modification well presented and safe PR looking device. I suggest, if you have something against the man, use your private messages and don’t spoil it for others. By the way , he is not selling it to anyone.

Click to expand...

Dennis did produce a gyro called Air Command,, and the Mini 500 as well as the Revolution, for you to say he didn't Invent Nothing..
You need to read the GYRO history Ole Boy,,


For those of us that were around when all of it was happenning,, we do remember who he is and what he has accomplished during his time with gyro's.

As For Me Fritz...

I need to quit being the kind hearted person I am and start charging for every single minute that I have with anyone for ground school..Or even comments on this forum...Right !!

Experience and information don't come cheap... If I had a Mech Eng degree like you,, I'd be just as intelligent as you..

However my degree comes from practical and personal experience...You go ahead and lock you PR and have a good flight..

Oh I'm sorry,, Do You own a gyro Fritz ??
Maybe you need a few hours of flight time and ground school don't Ya !
If so,, Sorry,, I'm all booked Up.. maybe later !!!!

As I said,, It does look good Dennis.. Thanks for posting the pics and info, no need for a PM ,, Like you,, I'm open with my comments,

Steve

DennisFetters said:

As soon as the Bendix begins to spin, it has a helical thread inside that will lift it into the ring gear. The drag of the power being transfered will hold it up into position until that transfer is complete, and then it will drop back down. It's all nice and automatic.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Dennis.

Kai.

Dennis, that looks like a nice setup. I just wonder how you get much lift out of those special short rotor blades you have in the last picture. Bet that prerotator goes from 0 to 400 RRPM in a few seconds with that rig. Hope to see it flying around Corona soon.

Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel,Ca N86SH

scott heger said:

Dennis, that looks like a nice setup. I just wonder how you get much lift out of those special short rotor blades you have in the last picture. Bet that prerotator goes from 0 to 400 RRPM in a few seconds with that rig. Hope to see it flying around Corona soon.

Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel,Ca N86SH

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When your rotor blades are that short, you have to go really really FAST! :yo:

Steve McGowan said:

Dennis did produce a gyro called Air Command,, and the Mini 500 as well as the Revolution, for you to say he didn't Invent Nothing..
You need to read the GYRO history Ole Boy,,


For those of us that were around when all of it was happenning,, we do remember who he is and what he has accomplished during his time with gyro's.

As For Me Fritz...

I need to quit being the kind hearted person I am and start charging for every single minute that I have with anyone for ground school..Or even comments on this forum...Right !!

Experience and information don't come cheap... If I had a Mech Eng degree like you,, I'd be just as intelligent as you..

However my degree comes from practical and personal experience...You go ahead and lock you PR and have a good flight..

Oh I'm sorry,, Do You own a gyro Fritz ??
Maybe you need a few hours of flight time and ground school don't Ya !
If so,, Sorry,, I'm all booked Up.. maybe later !!!!

As I said,, It does look good Dennis.. Thanks for posting the pics and info, no need for a PM ,, Like you,, I'm open with my comments,

Steve

Click to expand...

Children's toys in China during the fifth century BC had feathers at the end of a stick, which resemble a modern helicopter's rotors. Leonardo da Vinci in the 15th century, and Thomas Edison in the late 19th century had some interesting design but never left the ground. In 1935, Elton Whitney conceived of what would come to be known as the first modern helicopter. Igor Sikorsky produced his first helicopter in 1939, and Stanley Hiller Jr. produced the first helicopter with all-metal rotors in 1944.

The auto-gyro is a type of rotorcraft was invented by Juan de la Cierva in 1919. Igor Bensen patented the gyro in 1981 and following this many gyro has been produced, some with success and other went to the annals of history. Mr. Fetters, rightly like you say produced some interesting machines, but he dint invent nothing. Nowadays people improve but very little is invented.

I don’t own a gyro as yet , still looking but reading a lot here some very useful information , once I decide on which craft to get will need some professional flying instruction and I don’t think will take any of your busy time for it…Ole boy.

Might want to take a look at the wiring where it leaves the box, appears the insulation got pinched pretty good - maybe a grommet there would be a good idea.

Fritz said:

Children's toys in China during the fifth century BC had feathers at the end of a stick, which resemble a modern helicopter's rotors. Leonardo da Vinci in the 15th century, and Thomas Edison in the late 19th century had some interesting design but never left the ground. In 1935, Elton Whitney conceived of what would come to be known as the first modern helicopter. Igor Sikorsky produced his first helicopter in 1939, and Stanley Hiller Jr. produced the first helicopter with all-metal rotors in 1944.

The auto-gyro is a type of rotorcraft was invented by Juan de la Cierva in 1919. Igor Bensen patented the gyro in 1981 and following this many gyro has been produced, some with success and other went to the annals of history. Mr. Fetters, rightly like you say produced some interesting machines, but he dint invent nothing. Nowadays people improve but very little is invented.

I don’t own a gyro as yet , still looking but reading a lot here some very useful information , once I decide on which craft to get will need some professional flying instruction and I don’t think will take any of your busy time for it…Ole boy.

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uke:

This is your reasoning?...

Because your comments are usually so negative and sometimes hurtful I don't usually resound to you as you make it so difficult to say anything positive in return.

I'll bet you can't find another person on this forum or in the world with experience in rotorcraft, that would agree with your nit picking the definition of inventing.

What anyone who has taken the time to learn would have discovered by now is that Dennis is one of the most prolific designer of rotorcraft that you may ever meet in the rest of your life.

He either invents, designed, or manufactures new aircraft models, components, and anything he wants at will, and he shares his ideas with the rest of us and helps teach the rest of us for free.

From the rest of us, Thank You Dennis for all your contributions, we appreciate you, more than you know.

What have you ever done to help anyone F, except complain, condemn, or insult folks here?

It's not very attractive behavior or attitude, you must be a very unhappy person to have much a negative input and effect on the world.

Wow

Wow

I really knew all that Fritz,, jes a lil bit anyway..

So Thanks for the free lesson, however I was speaking of folks a bit later than the Chineese version..

PEOPLE that made the gyro what it is today. As Aggravattttting as some of them were they made a difference.

You are possibly one of those people that has yet to make your mark.


So calm down, we won't hurt Ya,

BUT We Will Run Your A$$ Off before you kill your Fool Self..

and thats the HISTORY I'm Talkin ABOUT...

Dennis: Very nice..! Your the consummate tinker'er and I always feel this thrilling sense of discovery when you go public with your latest gadgets.

Steve: I always get a great chuckle at some of your replies...you've got a great sense of humor..!

M-M

Fritz said:

Mr. Fetters, rightly like you say produced some interesting machines, but he dint invent nothing. Nowadays people improve but very little is invented.

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Fritz is correct, there is no need to criticize him for what he said when it is 100% true. I cant think of a thing I've invented, nor have I ever said I invented anything, in fact I have said here on the forum before that I've invented nothing.

I have however designed much better and simpler ways of doing things (anyways I think so), and used these ways in combinations, and I have designed different ways of doing the same thing, that some say were advancements.

Although it is very important to remember to always give credit to the inventor, because there are very few true inventors, and now they are more like re-discoverers (like Fritz points out, the helicopter was invented and first flown by the Chinese) I believe credit also belongs to the people that figure out how to take that invention and make it for the practical use of the people.

I feel that my best ability is to simplify something.