Beware of traps

gyroplanes

FAA DAR Gyropilot
Joined
Mar 18, 2004
Messages
6,205
Location
Lansing, Illinois (Chicago South Suburb)
Aircraft
(1) Air Command, (1) Bensen glider project (1) Air Command 2 place kit, (1) Sycamore gyro
Total Flight Time
2650
I just received this e-mail: (If you are buying a used machine, don't fall into this trap)

" Tom,
I need your second opinion.

I found a local DAR to do the inspection on my Air Command gyrocopter and he was questioning me if I had built more than 50% of the project? I told him that I had purchased it from an individual (second owner), where it was partially assembled/disassembled but became ill so he needed to sell it. This second owner never registered it in his name, and wasn't much into keeping records, unless he didn't acquire the records from the previous owner? That I'll never know. I took over the project and completely disassembled it to refinish it and reassembled the aircraft. Unfortunately, I took some advice from, not FAA but an individual that went thru this same process when he built his own gyrocopter, said that if you disassemble it, refinish it, add to the build, and reassemble it, keeping a builder's log you would be in the more than 50% built bracket. So, yes, I thought I had built more than half of the project. Well, a couple of things came to mind. The aircraft was de registered about 3 years ago which I recently found out about but I still got it registered in my name. I do have the special airworthiness certificate (pink copy) from the original inspection but no maintenance log books to back it up. So now the DAR doesn't think I'm eligible to certify it as experimental amateur built since I originally did not build the original aircraft. He thinks I would have to re-certify the aircraft and be placed into the experimental exhibition category. So now he's got me involved with FAA to sort thru this matter. Still waiting for the verdict from FAA.

Worst case scenario, I'll de register it and scrap the whole project? I can't believe I'm saying that! I only spent 3 1/2 years, on and off working on this project. I even installed your new seat tank and proud of it! HaHa! I just want to have fun and fly it. I don't want to be restricted to taking it to exhibitions. Too much like a job, all work and no play. I should have listened to my own instinct at the beginning and just bought a kit from the manufacturer then I'll have my own records instead of relying on someone's past history. And yes, I was considering an Air Command from the beginning. What's your take on this matter?"


My reply:

Oh boy, I wish you would have contacted me much earlier.

Since Air Commands are not factory built and never were, SOMEONE built 51% and since the gyro received an airworthiness certificate previously, that proves it.

Lost logbooks are a common problem and not at all insurmountable. Since there are no AD notes or "time life" items applicable to this aircraft, determination of total time is not necessary. (even if there were, they would just have to be performed)

The FAA registry should have a complete file on your aircraft. It will be searchable from the original N number and airworthiness certificate.

For a reasonable fee, the FAA will send you a CD of the records.

You should be able to re-register the gyro in your name, under the previous AW certificate.

You will need a current Annual Condition inspection, performed by the original builder or any A&P tech.
If the aircraft is deemed "Airworthy" you need only fly it.

The only downside to not being the original builder is that your annual condition inspection must be performed by an A&P.

Are you going to Bensen Days this year? There will probably be at least 3 qualified A&Ps there that can perform the required inspection.

What was the N number assigned previously? I can check the status of it for you. You may be only days away from being legal!
 
Tom,

This is a good example of how different DARs sometimes have different attitudes about how to interpret the rules. Anytime you are working with a DAR that doesn't have much experience with a given area (like Gyroplanes) you risk him not having a complete or proper understanding of the subject and that could turn into problems for the builder. I would strongly suggest you make sure your DAR understands Gyroplanes and the issues that we face and has a good attitude about them.

Everyone,

For the record, there isn't a DAR that understands the issues involved with Gyroplanes better than Tom Milton. It many cases you would be farther ahead to trailer your machine for thousands of miles to have him inspect it and get it done right, than to pick a DAR that doesn't understand the issues as well but is closer. Very Good Advice!!!!

Gyro Doug
 
I'll second that.:yo:
 
Tom did my first one. I was so pleased with his knowledge and help that I had him do a 2nd , and a 3rd, a 4th, and he will be doing my 5th one that I am presently building now. He is "da man". Stan
 
Yes he is the man!!! We are lucky he hangs with any of us?

Thank you Tom we do appreciate you!
 
We have a local DAR who inspects gyroplanes, and appears to be tough but fair. But he doesn't actually fly or otherwise have any interest in gyros, and I think that makes a difference. It's especially important if you have any 51% issues to use a DAR who knows the ropes, and that would be Tom.
 
My first

My first

My first 3 gyros were inspected by a guy here in the Springfield FSDO office (they were called GADO back then....lol). It was a pretty straight forward process and didn't have any difficulty getting any of them to pass. Unfortunately, that person has long since retired. Tom's going to be doing my signoff when i get the snobird done which I hope to be by Bensen Days...
 
inspection

inspection

Questions about the inspection process:
1) I assume you take the machine to him. If so I assume you transport without the rotor (duh). I would assume you would need the rotor on for the inspection.

2) Cost?
 
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