GPL Electric Starter ...

rsbiser

Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2005
Messages
246
Location
Cincinnati, OH
Aircraft
Dominator
Total Flight Time
1000
Hey Guys ...

First of all, let me say that I still have the starting issues with my 582. That is being discussed on another thread. I may be a little closer, but still don't have a definitive answer. I was able to get it started over the weekend, but only with much difficulty. Had to randomly play with the chokes (which are not hooked up to a cable cause I usually use a primer). So I now believe that it is probably a carb issue and we are going to clean everything, blow out all orifices and replace valves, o-rings and gaskets in both carbs as soon as the parts arrive.

I will update everyone on that as I get anything else to tell you.

In the mean time, I'm really getting tired of pulling that rope and want to start planning for electric start.

Anyone have any experience with the GPL Starters?

I'm interested in how well they are built, how well they work and then ... maybe, most importantly ...

Does anyone have experience with one mounted on a Dominator?

With the way that it is mounted at positions of 45, 135. 215 or 315 degrees on the mag end of the 582, I'm concerned that it will interfere with the air struts or the motor mount rails.

So, if you have one on a Dom or Ultra White, I'd love to hear what you think and see a picture or two of your installation.

Thanks,

Scott
 
Scott,
Uncle Leon here on the forum has a 582 Dom with the same electric start you are describing. Maybe he can post a picture of it.
 
Scott,
Uncle Leon here on the forum has a 582 Dom with the same electric start you are describing. Maybe he can post a picture of it.

Hey, Mike. I just happened to catch this. I just dropped the Dom off at the paint shop (way-cross-town). It will be there at least all week.

If someone will remind me a week from now, Ill be happy to make the pic.

(You know how it is with us old farts and our memory problems)
 
Uncle Leon,

Are you happy with the GPL Starter on your Dom?

Did you have any prolbems getting it to fit? No interference from the air shocks? I'd love to see pictures when you get around to it.

By the way, I'm an old fart too. Gettin' lazy maybe, but I'm tired of pullin' that starter rope.
 
Scott or Uncle Leon
How do you know, or at what age or you a old fart?:der:
 
Scott,

It always started on the second pull... at least until you rebuilt the top end:der:

How do you rebuild the top-end of a 2-stroke? New pistons and rings?

If it's fuel delivery that's VERY simple to check with a gasoline soaked rag and a couple of pulls.

Have you had the carbs apart to see?

I'm not sure about the build of these carbs, but it sounds like perhaps the idler jet has some crap in it and that's why it will fly ok but won't restart. Perhaps one of the jets is O-ring sealed and is sticking because it gets too hot? Are you monitoring your head temps to make sure you're not over-heating? Perhaps that "infallible" oil injection system has "fallabled" and is over or under-injecting oil? All of these things are very easily tested for.

Find the cause of your problems and don't worry about an electric start mate. It's just extra weight and something else to go wrong with.
 
Scott,

It always started on the second pull... at least until you rebuilt the top end:der:

Chris,
It always started on the first or second pull for me too - after we did the tear-down. And ran like a champ all last year. But I brought it home in February to do a little "Spring Cleaning" and ever since I took it back to the airport, it's been giving me a fit. I'm not positive the trouble statred as soon as I got it back out to the strip, but not long after.

I really didn't do much to it. Replaced the "fuel sight guage" tubing. Replaced the Primer lines. Rplaced the Plugs (and forgot to properly gap them - now remedied) and replaced the rubber carb boots.

I'm beginning to believe that when I had the carbs off to replace the boots, I must have gotten some crud in one of the carbs. It starts now, but wants to run really rough (like on one cylinder). I have learned how to coax it into "catching" and smoothing out by randomly fooling with the chokes. Once it smooths out, it runs fine. I have flown it for 20 to 30 minutes with out any signs of it coughing or getting hot or anything bad. Just doesn't like to start.

So anyway, I have ordered some rebuild kits (mostly gaskets and o-rings). And I've got a friend with some carb cleaning stuff (a soak tub and high pressure air). We'll do a thorough job of cleaning the carbs and hope that it solves my problems and it goes back to being the sweet starting machine I loved last year.

When it does, I'll probably forget about the electric start. Don't mind pulling if it's only a couple of times.

And Tex,

In January of '08 we tore the engine down, not because it needed much of anything but more as a learning experience for me and some other club members. Really didn't replace anything but the seals. Just did some bead blastin' to get rid of a little carbon. Everything checked out fine and it started right up when I got it monuted on my Dominator. Somehow I screwed it up this past winter.

And no oil injection. Just mix it in the gas can.

We did take the float bowls off the carbs at the field, but did not yet do a real good inspection of all the jets and orifices. That's next.

Thanks Guys,

Scott
 
Next time it won't start, just lub the cylinders with a spray of oil down the plug holes, toss a gasoline soaked rag over the air filters and give it a couple of pulls.. If you get ignition, then you'll know that your problem is fuel and you can spend your time working on that and not everything else. Is it possible you've introduced sand into the fuel system downstream of the fuel filter?? That stuff will stop a carb in it's tracks.
 
We have a powered parachute with a 582 to which we added the GPL starter. We have about 80 hours on it and are very very happy with it.
It even offers the option to keep the pull start which unfortunately we could not manage with our configuration.
 
Next time it won't start, just lub the cylinders with a spray of oil down the plug holes, toss a gasoline soaked rag over the air filters and give it a couple of pulls.. If you get ignition, then you'll know that your problem is fuel and you can spend your time working on that and not everything else. Is it possible you've introduced sand into the fuel system downstream of the fuel filter?? That stuff will stop a carb in it's tracks.

Don't know how I would have gotten sand in the fuel system. I drained the fuel ouf the tank and then out of the lines when I took the carbs off. All in a relatively clean environment (not in the desert or on the beach).

But I do believe that I have foreign matter in the carb and we're going to clean it out.

That gas rag test is interesting. Never heard of it before and I'm not sure I understand exactly what to do or how it works. Anything else you can tell me about it?

Thanks,

Scott
 
We have a powered parachute with a 582 to which we added the GPL starter. We have about 80 hours on it and are very very happy with it.
It even offers the option to keep the pull start which unfortunately we could not manage with our configuration.

Thanks Joe.

I may end up trying one. I'm not entirely sure it will fit, but I have a supplier who said I could try it and send it back if it does not.

Thanks for the good report,

Scott
 
That gas rag test is interesting. Never heard of it before and I'm not sure I understand exactly what to do or how it works. Anything else you can tell me about it?

The motor sucks air into the cylinder, but first through the carburator. If you look at the design of the carburator you will see that the air passes through a venturi first. This venturi increases the air's speed and decreases the air's pressure. At this point of lower pressure there are orifices that allow the passage of fuel. Because of the lower pressure the fuel is instantly atomised so what you have flow into the cylinder is a mixture of air and atomised fuel droplets (with oil droplets as well for 2-strokes). When the orifices plug up, the fuel is no longer introduced and atomized into the high speed airstream. At this point combustion can no longer be sustained.

If you soak a rag in gasoline (not a big rag, but just large enough to cover the air filter) and place it over the airfilter, when you suck air into the cylinder, the fuel will be introduced through evaporation from the rag instead of through the venturi. There are some pros and cons to this practice.

1. Con - you have to introduce some sort of lubrication into the cylinders since the oil that would normally be carried in with the atomized fuel through the carb is no longer supported because the oil wont evaporate with the gasoline from the rag method, instead only the fuel would vapourise, leaving an oily rag and possible cylinder damage.. Simply lube the cylinders lightly before you do the rag test.

2. Con - you have a fuel laden rag exposed to the atmosphere and any backfire could potentially cause them to combust. Though it's unlikely keep a small fire extinguisher handy, but that's a given anytime you're working with motors and fuel.

3. Pro - once you have ignition and have proven your spark, then you simply grab the rag and pull it off the carb. This will almost instantly kill the motor.

4. Pro - You won't have "runaway" as you can control the amount of gasoline you've added to the rag.

5. Pro - It's a non-invasive technique to prove spark.


Here are exactly the steps I use with this method when I'm working on chainsaws, brushcutters, or any of my other 2-stroke gear (I NEVER take my tools to a garage but work on them myself). Again, this is what I do and I'm not telling or suggesting you do the same... *my disclaimer*

1. Make sure there's not gasoline in the system to begin with. Drain the tank and lines, make sure the bowls are empty as well.

2. Remove the spark plugs (at least one per cylinder) and spray a 1 second squirt of WD40. I know this isn't an approved lubricant for 2-stroke engines but you are only going to burn for 1 second and you would more than likely get away without using any oil at all. I just know that WD40 wont foul plugs if you get carried away. Replace the spark plug.

3. Dip a rag in enough gasoline to wet it, be careful not to get it all over yourself to avoid a catastrophy, but that should go without saying.

4. Wrap the rags around the filters or remove the filters and loosely stuff the rag into the carb opening.

5. Turn on ignition and pull through until it starts.

6. Once started reach up and grab the rag and toss it away. You only want to prove ignition and not run the motor. Remember you have almost no lubrication and proof is all you're after.

I'm almost certain you'll prove your ignition and you'll move on to the next stage of cleaning the carbs out. I'll give you a little more advice.. Before you unscrew your jets, take a screw driver and turn them in all they way until they stop, but count the number of turns as you do so and write them down. This way, once you've cleaned the carbs and are ready to re-install the jets, you don't have to guess the turns, you can just turn them all the way in and count out the number you've written down.
Also, don't use a carb bath that is grungy. Make sure any bath you use is very very clean. It's best to just use a spray can of carb cleaner and compressed air. Make sure you use a non-chlorinated type carb cleaner unless you love abuse, because the chlorinated variety will burn flesh quickly, even though they do work a little better, I stay away from them. Not worth the pain.
Working with carburators is only successful if you are CLEAN with your work area and almost all failures of carb rebuild/cleaning is because of new garbage being introduced... Remember it only takes a single grain of sand to cause you grief. Some of the ports are a small as a hair in some carbs.

I hope this helps mate..

Wish I was on that side of the world to give ya a hand.. I just love working on these types of things. I'd also enjoy a proper 4th of July.. It's been years and I'm really missing it.
You can take the man out of Texas, but you can't take Texas out of the man..
 
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...We have a powered parachute....

I love to skydive and I love to fly, but you have to have balls of brass to do the powered parachute thing mate.. Once under canopy all I want to do is get on the ground and can't imagine ever wanting to use a motor to keep me up.. YIKES!!

Aren't you a bit concerned about collapse? Do these parachute at least have airlock cells? There's just something about a soft, "distortable", collapsable wing that just doesn't make it a good choice for motorised flight..:eek:
I run a higly loaded canopy to keep the cells full and the wing stiff. You guys run those things with almost no loading so you have great lift and such..
 
I hope this helps mate..

Wish I was on that side of the world to give ya a hand.. I just love working on these types of things. I'd also enjoy a proper 4th of July.. It's been years and I'm really missing it.
You can take the man out of Texas, but you can't take Texas out of the man..

Tex,
Thanks. Yes it helps. And I wish you were on this side of the globe too. I'd love to have another interested party getting his hands dirty to help me get this problem solved. To be fair, I do have a good buddy who is helping me a lot. He has a lot of special tools and is very willing to work on my machine, even when I don't have the time. THANKS BOB!

Sorry about your 4th of July. Don't they have those light em up things to blow stuff up with over there?

Thanks again,

Scott
 
Scott,

I hope you get it worked out. I saw the pictures of you at the little country fly-in. It was mentioned that you were still having a difficult time getting your 582 started.

I was just making light of a frustrating subject and hope it was taken that way....
 
Scott,

I hope you get it worked out. I saw the pictures of you at the little country fly-in. It was mentioned that you were still having a difficult time getting your 582 started.

I was just making light of a frustrating subject and hope it was taken that way....

Chris,
No problem on your comments. Takes a lot more than that to offend me so don't worry about that.

You're right. It has been very frustrating cause I know how well that motor started and ran last year. But I think I'm close to a final resolution. I'll update you and everyone soon as I have something positive to say.

Just curious. What pictures dit you see?

Scott
 
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