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  #16  
Old 01-09-2017, 09:47 AM
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Default Thank you Bryan!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryancobb View Post
One positive suggestion here.

Any and all distractions should be dealt with...with THIS PHRASE below. Sear it onto all students` brains.

"FLY THE AIRCRAFT!"
That is the point of the thread exactly Bryan.

I feel many pilots have died because they got distracted and forgot to fly the aircraft.
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  #17  
Old 01-09-2017, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance View Post
I do not know any pilots or tower personnel who would resent someone declaring an emergency even if it turned out it was not necessary.
The only opinion that matters with respect to "necessary" is that of the pilot in the aircraft at the time, not what might be thought later, by others, or on the ground.
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  #18  
Old 01-09-2017, 09:53 AM
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Default Thank you Dave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveJaksha View Post
I'm not familiar with the latching system on the doors used on the Magni or Cavalon, but I'm a suprised that no one describes a safety clip on these doors. I built a Long-eze many years ago, and an inadvertent canopy opening was a serious event. A spring clip was installed that would prevent the canopy from popping open more than a couple of inches if the canopy latch failed.

Dave
In my opinion the way the Cavalon doors are designed the door latch is not necessary for safe flight. I cannot imagine a situation where the door would open more than an inch.
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  #19  
Old 01-09-2017, 09:56 AM
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Default Thank you for adding to the thread John.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All_In View Post
I remember the 1st time a door popped open as a young student pilot on my solo.
Scared the heck out of me. My imagination took over and suspected I lost a control surface or wing it was so loud.

The plan was trimmed up in a climb so I just took my hand and feet off the controls and tried to shut the door several times. The airspeed/pressure on the door would not allow me to open it enough to close it.

So I looked up and she was trimmed because she was right where I should be. I picked up the radio and requested that I could do a full stop landing as my door popped open.

Great learning thread Vance and a good idea to pop a door open during instruction and teach fly the airplane and land if you need to to close the door.
It helps to make it real for less experienced pilots.
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  #20  
Old 01-09-2017, 09:59 AM
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Default Thank you J.R.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaspAir View Post
The only opinion that matters with respect to "necessary" is that of the pilot in the aircraft at the time, not what might be thought later, by others, or on the ground.
That was my point and perhaps I did not say it clearly enough.

I have read more than a few NTSB reports where if the pilot had declared an emergency the outcome might have been better.
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  #21  
Old 01-09-2017, 12:19 PM
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Looking at Part 23 you will find 78 references to DOOR in the regulations.
Not one of them mentions what should happen if the door comes open in flight.

It would be reasonable to require that any aircraft design demonstrates that opening a door in flight is a non-event.

Dave, How does that Spring Clip work?
I noticed in the regs that all door locks must be releasable from the outside.
I image you do not want to lock the rescue personnel out!

Many years ago the auto industry mostly abandoned the "Suicide Doors" on cars that were hinged from the rear.
It made getting into the seats extremely convenient but very dangerous if the door ever came open while at speed.
Has anyone ever NOT found an un-latched car door while driving?

Many years ago McDonald-Douglas decided to design the DC-10 with cargo doors that opened outward and upward to increase the usable cargo volume.
This became a fatal mistake. Twice!
A lot of people would still be alive today if the hinge line was just placed on the forward edge of the door instead of the top.
The cabin would have decompressed slower and the door would have remained attached instead of taking the side of the cabin and all the tail controls with it.
It would have been a very exciting non-event instead of a fatal disaster.
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  #22  
Old 01-09-2017, 03:47 PM
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I lost a friend in the late 70's because of this. He stopped flying and gave 100% of his attention to the door that was ajar. Very tragic. The plane would have flown fine and the door would have been fine. Nothing but poor cockpit management.
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  #23  
Old 01-09-2017, 06:22 PM
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Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. That was drilled i my head so very early in my flying career.

I've had doors pop open; Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. I've had a flap-gap seal lift up acting like a spoiler on one wing; Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. I had a brand new C-182 I was delivering to the west coast from Kansas blow out a spark plug 20 miles away from the nearest airport; Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. I've had an airspeed indicator quit just as I entered into solid IMC; Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.

Unfortunately, I've known several who fatally have forgotten that simple memory aid.

Wayne

https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/...nt.aspx?cID=40
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  #24  
Old 01-09-2017, 06:43 PM
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It is sad to consider how many pilots may have lost their lives trying to close an open door in a plane where part of the off-field landing checklist includes the instruction to open the doors before touching down.
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  #25  
Old 01-09-2017, 09:06 PM
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One factor that makes doors opening such an alarming distraction, in my limited experience, is the resulting constant roar which overwhelms the intercom squelch.

I had this happen once as a passenger in a Cherokee 140. We landed at the nearest airport and got it closed. Afterward, I reflected on how the violent change in sound had made this non-event seem much more dramatic and distracting.
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  #26  
Old 01-10-2017, 05:43 AM
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I believe that an experience as the one which Vance's student had drills home the point permanently. A hard to forget lesson. You can tell people 100 times over but have them experience it once and lesson learned. To paraphrase: an experience is worth a thousand lessons.

-- Chris.
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  #27  
Old 01-10-2017, 09:14 AM
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Default Thank you all.

Thank you all for reading and participating in this thread.

I feel there is value in it.

I was amazed to see someone go from good situational awareness doing something routine to a total lack of situational awareness.

I had read about it but I had never witnessed it.

There are times where I have lost situational awareness but it was not as clear to me as watching someone else go through the experience.

In our debrief I was pleased to see the impact the experience had on the pilot under instruction.

I have read the ditty that Wayne posted many times and it had always seemed obvious.

I could not break through the fog.

It didnít last long. I feel it would have lasted longer if I had not been providing instruction.

I hope all those reading this will spend a little time imagining an inflight emergency and what they would do. I feel there is value in it.

I hope reading this thread will help pilots recognize when they are losing situational awareness in a perceived emergency and snap out of it.

Please donít get caught up in the door. It could be many things.

I have lost situational awareness doing something as simple as managing my transponder or changing frequencies. It doesnít take long for the situation to escalate.
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  #28  
Old 01-10-2017, 09:46 AM
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Uncle Willie,

If I remember correctly, the safety clip on the Longeze, as a simple flat plate with a hole/slot in the middle that engaged a bolt in the side of the plane just below the canopy. If the latching mechanism failed, the canopy would try to open, but the bolt would catch on the hole in the plate. By pulling the plate in, you would allow the safety catch to bypass the bolt and open. From the outside, you could reach the safety catch by pushing through a hole, thus disengaging the catch. As an aside, some early Longeze builders would get into the rear seat, close the canopy, and find themselves trapped, because they could not reach the canopy latch from the rear seat. That was fixed pretty quick.

A quick look at the Calidus and Cavalon POH show no emergency procedure for the Cavalon door opening, but the Calidus is a different matter. Requiring side slipping to try and keep the canopy closed. I seem to remember a video of a Calidus landing and having the canopy pop open. It did not end well.

Dave
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  #29  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:30 AM
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I dont like the Calidus canopy, in the case of a roll over to the left and a fire I'm not sure how you get out. but we digress a few years back when GPS was new a lot of glider pilots bought them selves a GPS as a xmas present, then come the spring they went up and played with their new toys. at that point the accident rate and near misses increased significantly , they had lost situational awareness, like the pilots on a comercial jet who spent time changing a warning light bulb and ened up crashing.
as well as situational awareness it's also prioritisation, deciding what is the most improtant thing to be doing at this point in time.
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  #30  
Old 01-12-2017, 11:43 AM
TyroGyro TyroGyro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandL View Post
Uk fatal accident in 2011 M24 door opened in flight
https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/factor201108v1.pdf
It seems the pilot may have reduced power to land, while simultaneously taking his hand off the column, to fiddle with the door once more.

Unbeknown to him, this would induce a left roll, and he was too low to recover.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...CGTI_10-11.pdf
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