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Old 01-10-2017, 06:43 AM
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johnrk johnrk is offline
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Default Magni sets altitude record!

From the Aero Society podcast description:

"On November 8th, 2015 Donatella Ricci achieved the new world
gyroplane altitude record reaching 27,556 feet with a Magni
Gyro M16. This lecture brings together all the lessons Donatella
learned along the nine month journey to achieve such a
record."

The last record was held by an American in a Little Wing - 26,400! Wowza!

OK Abid - get to work

The iTunes link is not working on my phone so here is the link to the mobile page on Soundcloud

https://m.soundcloud.com/aerosociety...d-lecture-2016

And here it is in iTunes if you have an iPhone:
Cierva Named Lecture

Very interesting - they lengthened the blades 10 cm each and modified the rotor pitch for higher efficiency at altitude. This led to long take off rolls. They also added a manual controller for the turbo which PREVENTED automatic deactivation above 15K by the electronic controller A flight suit with electric heating elements and a special oxygen mask and system were added. Parts were removed (fairings etc) that were considered non-essential for weight savings. Pretty impressive venture to consider a Magni at 27,556 feet!!

Last edited by johnrk; 01-14-2017 at 07:21 AM.
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by johnrk View Post
They also added a manual waste gate controller for the turbo which was intentionally deactivated above 15K - that fact seemed counter-intuitive to me!
If they disabled the wastegate above 15k', it would result in max available boost at all times.
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2017, 03:49 PM
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I reviewed that section of the audio and it appears she said (in her broken English) that the electronic controller shuts off the turbo above 15K, "...because they don't want people flying that high," so she learned to manually control the turbo. It is the 25 minute mark if you want to review it. Sorry for the misunderstanding...

Last edited by johnrk; 01-11-2017 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:55 PM
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Congrats to them, I guess. It's routine for gliders to bust that height with no engine at all, much less a turbocharger . . .
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Old 01-12-2017, 01:17 AM
ckurz7000 ckurz7000 is offline
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I wonder if it wouldn't be relatively easy to better that altitude record if you used the same technique as gliders: get in a wave and ride it up. I have been in a wave with the gyro and was still going up with engine at idle.

-- Chris.
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Old 01-12-2017, 04:41 AM
loftus loftus is offline
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I wonder if it wouldn't be relatively easy to better that altitude record if you used the same technique as gliders: get in a wave and ride it up. I have been in a wave with the gyro and was still going up with engine at idle.

-- Chris.
Would this not be inordinately more difficult in a gyro, not being a glider?
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:37 AM
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Would this not be inordinately more difficult in a gyro, not being a glider?
The glider record is just over 50,000 feet.
Busting 30,000 is not hard in fixed wing aircraft using wave currents. What you need is two things in combination: just enough forward speed to hold your fore-aft position in the winds that create the wave system, and a sink rate that is lower than the updraft speed of the air. (There's a gradient in the wind speed with altitude, so gliders might fly slow s-turns at the lower altitudes to reduce forward progress, but fly very fast straight ahead when up really high, to hold windward position in the stationary wave system.) I have seen climb rates well in excess of 2,000 fpm in a 1400 pound sailplane, while flying with forward speed in the vicinity of only 60 mph, so there is plenty of energy available in the atmosphere. A gyro will not have an engine-off sink rate as small as a sailplane at wave forward speeds, but if you're only seeking the mid 20 thousands, where the forward speed required is lower than at higher altitudes, and especially if you can use a little power, it could well be possible on the right day in the right place.

Last edited by WaspAir; 01-12-2017 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 01-17-2017, 07:10 AM
ckurz7000 ckurz7000 is offline
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Would this not be inordinately more difficult in a gyro, not being a glider?
I have been in a mountain wave and seen straight and level at idle and about 50 km/h. I didn't go up very far just sort of stayed in it and drifted back and forth a bit. If you were to ride the wave successfully for as high up as possible you'd need to be able to fly at indicated airspeeds between 30-70 km/h with as little downward motion as possible, i.e., high throttle settings. In the Arrowcopter, at full gross, I can maintain s&l at about 50 km/h. At altitude your need to consider that your true airspeed will be significantly higher than what's displayed on the ASI.

In addition you need, of course, oxygen. Also, heated socks are a must or you could lose a toe or two. It's pretty darn cold up there. Be absolutely sure that the windshield doesn't frost over. And be prepared to fly through some hefty turbulence before getting into the smooth part. But then it's a blast!

-- Chris.
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Last edited by ckurz7000; 01-17-2017 at 07:13 AM.
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  #9  
Old 01-17-2017, 11:07 AM
Jean Claude Jean Claude is offline
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At altitude your need to consider that your true airspeed will be significantly higher than what's displayed on the ASI.
Yes Chris,
Density at 27000 ft is only half. This means true airspeed is 1.41 time more than what's displayed on the ASI, while the drag is the same.
So, rrpm is 1.41 time relatively than sea level. Increase diameter and reduce the load is required for avoid reaching Mach 1 on blade tips.
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Old 01-18-2017, 10:10 AM
ckurz7000 ckurz7000 is offline
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Yes Chris,
Density at 27000 ft is only half. This means true airspeed is 1.41 time more than what's displayed on the ASI, while the drag is the same.
So, rrpm is 1.41 time relatively than sea level. Increase diameter and reduce the load is required for avoid reaching Mach 1 on blade tips.
Ansolutely correct. If you really want to set an altitude record you need to tune your gyro carefully for this. Things are different up there.

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  #11  
Old 01-18-2017, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckurz7000 View Post
I have been in a mountain wave and seen straight and level at idle and about 50 km/h. I didn't go up very far just sort of stayed in it and drifted back and forth a bit. If you were to ride the wave successfully for as high up as possible you'd need to be able to fly at indicated airspeeds between 30-70 km/h with as little downward motion as possible, i.e., high throttle settings. In the Arrowcopter, at full gross, I can maintain s&l at about 50 km/h. At altitude your need to consider that your true airspeed will be significantly higher than what's displayed on the ASI.

In addition you need, of course, oxygen. Also, heated socks are a must or you could lose a toe or two. It's pretty darn cold up there. Be absolutely sure that the windshield doesn't frost over. And be prepared to fly through some hefty turbulence before getting into the smooth part. But then it's a blast!

-- Chris.
As one who has spent significant time up high in the wave off Pike's Peak in Colorado in gliders, I can offer a few additional details for their entertainment value: (1) most current oxygen systems are designed for use in heated cabins, and if you don't have heat, you need to choose and install the equipment carefully to avoid frozen moisture blockage problems; (2) cannulas are popular in general aviation, but never trust one much above 20,000 feet; use a mask instead; (3) heated socks seem to have a nasty habit of just one failing, which is annoying beyond belief; if you use them, be sure the battery pack is kept warm as well because low voltage cuts the heat (4) snowmobile-style clothing is nice but the extra bulk makes operating controls awkward (and big boots don't fit pedals well); (5) make some clear vision panels for your glass (a double-pane effect, using weather stripping and a flexible sheet of clear plastic, will avoid most of the frosting-over problem) (6) really vigorous wave may require more forward speed than the range Chris described; (7) outside temps are nasty up high regardless of the season/time of year; (8) the rotor turbulence (that is, the lower altitude airflow rotor section of the wave phenomenon, not your aircraft blades) which you might need to pass through to approach the lift, is scary-strong if unexpectedly encountered by the faint-hearted; and (9) chap-stick (lip balm), if petroleum based, will undergo combustion in the presence of high oxygen concentrations and is not fun.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:14 PM
chrisk chrisk is offline
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and (9) chap-stick (lip balm), if petroleum based, will undergo combustion in the presence of high oxygen concentrations and is not fun.
Please tell me this is not from personal experience.

You are also quite right about the temperatures. I iced up my plane at 18,000 over southern Colorado this August.

And a reminder to anyone who wants to try this. Remember Class A starts at 18,000. At a minimum you'll need a radio and 1090 transponder. And if your lucky, ATC will give you a clearance. --although, I'm not entirely how they would handle this with a gyro, since you can't get a gyro IFR rating.
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:45 AM
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congrats! Magni is a very nice machine.
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  #14  
Old 01-12-2017, 06:36 AM
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Can an Everest over-flight be far behind?
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  #15  
Old 01-12-2017, 08:01 AM
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Actually the record was previously held by a Namibian, not an American...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEFNrieoW1M

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