Rotary Wing Forum Can you help me with landing technique?
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#31
06-13-2012, 08:55 AM
 GyrOZprey Aussie in Kansas. Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Whitewater KS Posts: 747
Bingo!!!

Thanks so much!
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Chris T.
3Rs - Rotors rock&rule!

"Blessed are the flexible for they shall not be bent out of shape." Buck B.

Time flies if you can but only the slowest.

PRA# 42127
#32
06-13-2012, 10:04 AM
 Resasi Gold Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: London/ Kilifi Kenya Posts: 6,094

An old thread but seems it's been resurrected.

Here was some good advice I got on circuits, and a technique that will help get the approach to a landing right. Can be practiced anytime anywhere no need for a gyro.

Pick out a nice straight line on the ground. The curb, edge of the lawn, whatever. For an average size person it takes two normal steps to walk a distance about equal to their height. So walking 8 steps away from the straight line you picked on the ground will make the line appear at about the same angle as you would see the runway from your gyro on approach.

Pick as an imaginary runway the curb of a road. From this measure 8 paces off to the side. You are now approximately four times farther off to the side than you are tall. Your eyes will now be looking at the imaginary runway from exactly the same angle as they would if you were flying a downwind traffic pattern to the runway/kerb. And, in the event of an engine failure still glide to that runway/kerb because the average gyro has a glide ratio of aprox 1:4 on approach which gives that particular angle. Remember though, your particular set-up may need a bit less or a bit better.

Remember angles, not distances. The angle that you look at the runway/kerb from 2 paces tall and 8 paces away is exactly the same as an actual runway would look from a gyrocopter 200 feet up and 800 feet from the centerline of the runway it would be on a downwind. Turn so that you are facing parallel to the kerb then imagine you are on a downwind, walk the downwind all the while keeping your eyes on the "runway". Get a good feeling for the look of the runway when you are about to turn base.

If you get that angle fixed in your mind, you will nearly always be able to fly traffic circuits from which you should be able to glide to the runway, able to judge whether the angle is such that you can make it to the runway or not.

For engine out approaches remember the glide ratio work it out accordingly and remember the angles and look of them. Since your altitude may be different, you should be turning at slightly different points. Being lower, you need to be a bit closer in, being higher you need to be a bit further out.
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Leigh.
#33
06-13-2012, 04:06 PM
 SandL Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Wootton Bassett Posts: 230

I suggest away from the gyro look into the far distance .... keep looking and gradually crouch down ... you will see a huge difference in the view
then sit in the gyro and ask some one to bend down under the nose then ask them to simply raise and lower the nose a few times, this is the "round out"
now sitting still in the gyro keep looking into the distance and remember that picture...
then maybe do a few landings strainght into wind with power and just concentrate on reproducing those 2 pictures ,.... and try to relax whilst doing it relax the shoulders and dont grip the stick too tight. after a few landings with power , gradually use less and less power, the round out will gradually get quicker and quicker and your landing roll shorter and shorter.
well that's my take on it... I am not a gyro instructor but have done 4,000 instructional launches in sailplanes where you look is key in my opinion.
let us know how you get on and take care
#34
06-13-2012, 04:25 PM
 Resasi Gold Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: London/ Kilifi Kenya Posts: 6,094

Not a gyro, but hoping one never gets on the brakes too hard.

Having flown 180's and 185's in bush charter this didn't look too bad, it wasn't a 3 pointer but wheeled it on OK...until his brakes locked.

Plane Landing Goes Wrong! - YouTube
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Leigh.
#35
06-13-2012, 04:47 PM
 Penguin Too Short a Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Satellite Beach, FL Posts: 1,352

Those damn fixed wings are death traps!
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"Knowledge weighs nothing."

Larry Hughes
582 Blue Head Dominator, pull start, 2.62:1 'C' box, coilovers, 60" Warp, 23' DWs
PRA Member, Sunstate Wing & Rotor Club, EAA Chapter 1288 X59
#36
06-13-2012, 07:05 PM
 NoWingsAttached Unobtainium Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Villa Rica, GA Posts: 3,425

so how are your landings these days? I'm curious: how much do you and the gyro weigh at take-off? THe heavier the disk loading, the harder it is to do a good low or zero roll landing. YOu said in the first posts you had 25' DW's, but your profile says 23', I suspect the latter.
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ONWARDS and UPWARDS!

World Famous Gerg
#37
06-14-2012, 12:46 AM
 Penguin Too Short a Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Satellite Beach, FL Posts: 1,352

Gerg - this is a year old thread.

I replaced my DWs with 23s last November and updated my signature accordingly.
(Because of this, there is disagreement in the written word and the signature.)
Big improvement in flight characteristics.
Sportier, more maneuverable. Don't feel as though I'm hanging from a big spring.
Yes, it changed both takeoff and landing manners.
I am very conservative in getting my rotor up to flight speed.
Landing is a little quicker but I find I don't balloon up so easily as with the bigger blades.

I estimate I've done 300 landings in 100 hours since this post.
And am doing just fine, thanks.

Line of sight down the runway was a factor for me.
Funny story on myself - I wear bifocals and finally figured out not to look down through the bottom of the lenses as the optical change is upsetting. Those who wear bifocals can relate to their initial problems walking down stairs.
__________________
"Knowledge weighs nothing."

Larry Hughes
582 Blue Head Dominator, pull start, 2.62:1 'C' box, coilovers, 60" Warp, 23' DWs
PRA Member, Sunstate Wing & Rotor Club, EAA Chapter 1288 X59
#38
06-20-2012, 02:25 PM
 Snowgum Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 56

I trained on a private acreage that had two turf runways, 900ft and 600ft long. I have no problems whatsoever landing on either of these runways, but take me to any other airfield and I feel like I'm landing for the first time. During my cross country flight, I had a beautiful 9000ft asphalt runway to land on, and I ballooned (twice!!). I would have done a fly over and gone for another circuit, but I had two aircraft on my tail that went right over the top of me.

I had plenty of runway, so I did a few hops and got it down. I don't know if I'm over-thinking it, or if I'm focusing too much on the landing spot instead of looking down the runway, or if I'm just not judging the distances/angles accurately. Either way, I feel like a I need a lot more practice!!

I hate touch and go's. I'm always worried about losing rotor RPM before I take off again.

I guess it all comes down to experience, but I'm glad to know it's not just me!!

Thanks for sharing!

Last edited by Snowgum; 06-20-2012 at 02:31 PM.
#39
06-20-2012, 02:34 PM
 Penguin Too Short a Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Satellite Beach, FL Posts: 1,352

I found that focusing on finishing the landing with the cyclical all the way back into my gut helped my landings. I do that by trying to keep the nose gear off the ground as long as possible.

As to the touch and gos, once the nose wheel settled back to the ground, then enter into your takeoff ritual, even if it means flattening the blades and losing some more rrpm, just to catch your breath.

Us newbies gotta stick together or the ole farts will eat us up!
__________________
"Knowledge weighs nothing."

Larry Hughes
582 Blue Head Dominator, pull start, 2.62:1 'C' box, coilovers, 60" Warp, 23' DWs
PRA Member, Sunstate Wing & Rotor Club, EAA Chapter 1288 X59
#40
06-21-2012, 08:08 AM
 Resasi Gold Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: London/ Kilifi Kenya Posts: 6,094

Quote:
 I wear bifocals and finally figured out not to look down through the bottom of the lenses as the optical change is upsetting. Those who wear bifocals can relate to their initial problems walking down stairs.
I wear readers and normally fly quite happily without glasses, though on cross country reading the map and changing frequencies can pose problems with fine detail becoming a problem so when over in the US I decided to act on a recommendation on this Forum for Wiley X sunglasses as they could do a varifocal prescription.

I went for the 'Full Monty', whole 9 yards for you guys, and got a really nice pair of wrap round Wiley's that made the wallet wince. The way the advertising went, if I went in vertically the glasses would survive.

Well first flight, nice sunny day, glasses were great. I went for my usual dose of endorphines and was practicing the various maneuvers I like to try and keep sharp with. one being unexpected engine outs.

Easy if you have a mate on frequency to suddenly say 'Fan stop!!', or an instructor behind you who will choose those awkward moments, but a bit harder to try and catch yourself out. But low and downwind seemed a appropriately bad place so suddenly chopped the throttle. A quick 180 and just enough alt to make it when I suddenly found out that lower peripheral vision is hugely important, and when you are suddenly trying through lenses that you are not accustomed to... it can result in a 'less than elegant landing'!!!

We live and learn, hopefully most of the time.
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Leigh.

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