What engine DO YOU FLY over hostile terrain?

You guys and gals with experience actually flying over congested cities, terrain, and water I wish to learn how often you really trust your favorite engine and which ones.

I trust Lycoming to fly occasionally over terrain or coast line where there is no landing zone at the altitude I’ve selected for sightseeing.

Now I have to select a lighter engine so I’m thinking a new 582 for the single-place Genesis and a 912 for the two-place.
Until the Webber has 500 hours Nicolas doesn't wish to use it, so that is out for me, but right now I trust a Yamaha or Webber more than a 2 stroke. = Motorcycles 2-Strokes and Sea Doo Rotax's have not been aircraft reliable for me.

Chris’s flight from Boston to San Diego convinced me the 912 is worth trusting but, I’m not sure I trust the 582 to fly over the same terrain. Do any of you?

What engines do you trust and how many hours do you trust it for?

You know my answer...

All the 582 I knew in constant use, never failed . . .so I guess they are ok to fly anywhere, the premise of emminent failure should render that ship useless, it is a sky hazard as it is said . . .
No one knows when an engine will fail and if it does, gyros are the best machine to handle the problem.
Some people have to rethink this matter and not launch a ship in the air always afraid.
Heron

My Mac let me down 10 times in 75 hours.

My 532 let me down 8 times in 40 hours

My 582 never let me down in 175 hours

My EJ22 never let me down in 235 hours

My EJ25 never let me down in 240 hours

I let my turbine down once in 35 hours..


Stan

Stan:
That is a good indicator for the question posted . . .
Now,
When flying over hostile terrain, other than awareness and preparedness, do you have any other concerns with your ship?
thanks
Heron

John, you should track down Carl Schneider at once, and see if he has a buyer for his used, 60 HP, four-stroke HKS. He's upgrading to the 80 HP turbo version.

The HKS is a little heavy for its power, but it's air-cooled, so you save the weight (and drag) of radiator and coolant.

John..

John..

you are light enough to look at the 503.
I am WAY heavier than you and flying a heavier ship and have been very happy with the performance. Sure I could use a little more climb here and there, but our temp shift here is far more extreme than yours is.
The 503 was described to me by a Rotax repairman once as "damn near bullet proof" and thus far it has been.
It is air cooled and with a primer starts every time on the first pull. I don't have any problem with two strokes if you keep them within their parameters they are quite reliable and a simpler mechanism to work with.
I truly believe the way to happiness with a two stroke is use quality lube (Opti lube) follow the maintenece plan and most importantly run it frequently! They hate to sit. I might feel differently if we were snow bound for 6 months a year, but I use mine every weekend and it has been a sewing machine!
As for the HKS, my buddy is using one on a Kolb build and it does have some interest to me, BUT everything I have been able to find on them says they have heating issues in a pusher configuration. Still the extra HP would be nice for acrobatics.
Ben S

Heron- I try to never fly over hostile terrain such as solid wooded areas...or open water. But I consider standing corn as hostile terrain.

Just because I have a turbine doesnt make me feel any safer. Thats why I practice autos all the time. Besides being fun....practicing these helps should I ever have a real one.....which I did!


Stan

Airspeed is life.

Altitude is life insurance.

Rotorcraft have the glide ratio of a brick with a small streamer taped to it.

Unless you are flying a twin engine gyro/heli I hope everyone tries to minimize the time you spend low over hostile terrain.

.

The only hostile terrain I fly over is my house after my wife receives the check book statement that has the latest round of gyro part purchases in it.

John, gyros are popular in South Africa, and many many hundreds of hours and thousands of cross-country miles are flown every year over mountains and wilderness terrain. Incidences and reports of engine failure are rare. This may be attributable to the fact that the vast majority of gyros in S.Africa are factory built and most of these are fitted with Rotax 914's. (Magni, Ela, MT-03, Sycamore etc).
Our civil aviation regulations require annual inspections be conducted by an officially approved maintenance facility or person, who is obliged to check that all servicing & maintenance requirements have been complied with before an annual Authority to Fly certificate is issued. Quite a lot of red tape and hoops to jump through compared to the USA with the result that gyro homebuild projects are not so popular here. The up side is that from an accident and safety perspective, very very few accidents are attributable to engine or structural failure.

I personally have a lot of confidence in my Magni's Rotax 914 (840 trouble free hours on it to date) and regularly fly over mountains or on cross country trips over inhospitable terrain ( see this gyro safari thread to get an idea http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21183 ) but that's not to say I don't have a wary eye out for any potential emergency landing spot every inch of the way!!! I'm sure that most will agree that whilst Rotax enjoys a good reputation for reliability - reputation is no substitute for meticulous maintenance and care.

I only have experience with certified engines, Soobs 2.2 carby, and now a VW conversion that is supposed to be 80 bhp. No experience with the Rotax engines at all.

I must say that my Sooby has been great as long as the fuel pump is grounded. The VW has a minor oil leak but I'm use to this from the Continental I owned once. Never was able to get that oil leak stopped either. The VW really seems to be great so far. But I haven't been in the heat with it yet. FWIW most seem to be pretty much bullet proof if you change the oil, keep fuel in it and don't push too hard.

Good luck finding the one you will trust with your life.

When I fly over water or hostile terrain, I fly Delta...

When I'm over hostile terrain, I use Four Rolls-Royce AE 2100D3 turboprops; 4,700 horsepower... Um, Hold on, I'm flashing back to the Afghanistan War, I'm going to go hide in the corner now.

The only hostile territory I've ever flown over was my house.........when I saw my wife out working in the yard and she was looking right up at me......oops!


Barry ( in the dog house again ) K

Parameters, please? Lets keep it inside . . .
You are about to get over unsuitable terrain, what are the procedures? Mental ones of course . .
Heron

If I was you... the 503 is like someone else said "bulletproof" I have seen those engines with 500, 700, 1000 damn hours on them and they keep asking for more. If properly set up I would compare the reliability as good as any other Rotax engine including the 912 series. The 582 Blue Head is also a great choice, however, more to go wrong with....IMHO a 503 or 912 would be my choice..

Thank you so much!! This is exactly what I was looking for, some are very funny… You know who you are. I enjoyed the laugh!

I do not recommend nor do I intend to fly at an altitude where I can not make my next landing zone. However there are short sections where our coast has no beaches only rocks and mountain valleys even over roads there will be NEW terrain that suspires me as I turn the corner as to no landing zone at current flight altitude.

Until I have enough time logged to be able to land anywhere at any time like I can in the FW’s I will fly at an altitude were I can always make a landing.

I’ll try to respond to those that had a question or suggestion.

@Paul
I asked Nicolas about the HKS. IIRC he said it was more like a 503 and the 582 would be more powerful.

@Ben
Your right, I could easily use a 503. But few of my friends and family are my size and I have many that will be able to talk me into letting them fly it at places like Rotors over the Rockies. So…
I’m going to build it for you big guys and I’ll fly it by adding external fuel tanks or ballast to the two ballast points Nicolas has designed for that purpose.

In addition I discovered as an FBO I could never own an aircraft for long a customer always wanted to buy her. Using a 582 or ? will assure a broader marker. As the US Agent for Aviomania I fear this will happen with my gyros too.

@Tim
Thank you Tim for explaining that, trying to always have a landing zone I can make is my philosophy as well and 95% of the time no problem. It's for that unexpected 5% I wish to select an engine that most would trust here.

@David
I know I saw your African adventure and was wondering what I would fly there.

@Matt
Dang if it were NOT for my FAT friends I would use a 503 it would work for me.

Scott Hegar uses the Rotax 582 in his Sport Copter Vortex that he flies over the LA basin.

He is particular about his engines to the point that when he experienced flooding the first time at Corona airport, he replaced the entire propulsion package: engine, starter, and gearbox.

He made the statement here that he promised his family that he would make sure his engine was the best for the terrain over which he flies.

Silly question

Silly question

This is a silly question. Every pilot should treat an off field landing as "hostile terrain". Its exactly this kind of 'you could land it anywhere" that has lead to the extensive reputation in the NTSB reports.

If you are flying junk why are you flying ?

J