what are the benefits?

John Stahl

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Guys I am a Montanan and we have an aversion to governing bodies. You know the government unions FAA. We just don’t like rules up here.

The Big sky rotor heads are having a lot of fun getting together and BSing. And don’t understand why we should become a PRA chapter. What benefit would we get from starting a chapter in Montana?
So far the only benefit I know of is they will make our pocket books lighter.
 
I just can't help myself... If you join PRA you help subsidize an airport at Mentone for 1/4 of the membership to use once a year, and a smaller portion to use all year round. :flame: Well, some may say that ain't so because the airport is already paid for from past membership dues. :boink:
 
You provide a way for other people in Montana who are interested in gyros to find you.
 
A good question

A good question

One of our chapter members steadfastly refuses to join the PRA.
What for? he say's.
What does the PRA do for me?

  • The PRA is our national voice. Our voice to the EAA, ASC, FAA and others.
  • The PRA brought us the 5209 exemption, so most of you could learn to fly safely.
  • The PRA got us into the Light Sport program. The FAA originally said "NO ROTORCRAFT"
  • The PRA used to be the number one source for all things gyroplane.
  • The PRA offered a CFI scholarship
  • The PRA holds an annual fly-in / convention
  • The PRA does everything it can to promote gyroplanes and sport rotorcraft.
  • MOST IMPORTANTLY, the PRA management is almost exclusively volunteers, people that give their time and money for the love of the sport
Yes, we own an airport, and I'm damn proud of it. A whole bunch of people unselfishly contributed time and money to make the PRA Mentone airport what it is today.
 
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Gary,
You're welcome to use the airport anytime you'd like. You just choose not to.
 
The PRA Mentone airport has had rotorcraft visitors from ALL 50 states and at least 8 foreign countries. The all 50 states record was attained during the SECOND convention in 1997.
 
Gary,
You're welcome to use the airport anytime you'd like. You just choose not to.

The PRA Mentone airport has had rotorcraft visitors from ALL 50 states and at least 8 foreign countries. The all 50 states record was attained during the SECOND convention in 1997.


Let's be fair and practical, folks - a pilot in Montana won't see much direct benefit in having an airport in Indiana available to him, and it's not a very surprising "choice" not to fly 2000 miles from Oregon to do a few touch and go landings there. (There's also a political reality that has to be dealt with - there was a fair bit of resentment on the west coast when that airport was purchased so far from members on the Pacific side of the country, with many upset that they had no say in the matter, and no doubt some of that resentment still persists, whether one agrees with it or not.)

I'm not arguing that one shouldn't join PRA. I just think Mentone is not an especially great selling point for people west of the Rockies, and that benefits that directly help out pilots in Montana will be more persuasive to somebody thinking about starting a chapter there.
 
Gary,
You're welcome to use the airport anytime you'd like. You just choose not to.
Thanks for the offer of letting me use the Mentone airport anytime I would like. I don't think the $100's it would take to get me and my gyro there would be worth it. And 'sides, I dropped my membership. Does that mean the offer is no good any more? ;) I would loved to have made it to Mentone, but it just wasn't to be.

I do agree with ya'all about the great voice that the organization provides with the FAA.

The price is a little steep when I add PRA membership to my AOPA and EAA memberships too. And the magazines from those two organizations give me plenty of good reading. The PRA magazines have been as good as they could be with the decreased money to spend on producing them while the airport sucked the membership money for a couple years. Also, the PRA magazines had many pages of old-news (history), which didn't float my boat.

I hear people say that the magazine is what we make it. True. I did submit a few articles a few years ago. But I spent lots of my extra time on my local chapter 73 as web and newsletter editor. So I had my fill of "putting out".

It was just time for me to pull back since I was having trouble with the way the money flowed and the inequity in return for the majority of the membership.:violin: 'nough of that sad story...
 
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Let's be fair and practical, folks - a pilot in Montana won't see much direct benefit in having an airport in Indiana available to him, and it's not a very surprising "choice" not to fly 2000 miles from Oregon to do a few touch and go landings there. (There's also a political reality that has to be dealt with - there was a fair bit of resentment on the west coast when that airport was purchased so far from members on the Pacific side of the country, with many upset that they had no say in the matter, and no doubt some of that resentment still persists, whether one agrees with it or not.)

I'm not arguing that one shouldn't join PRA. I just think Mentone is not an especially great selling point for people west of the Rockies, and that benefits that directly help out pilots in Montana will be more persuasive to somebody thinking about starting a chapter there.


The PRA Mentone airport wasn't purchased so someone in the Pacific Northwest could come and do touch-and-goes. I live 100 miles away, I've never landed there either.

The PRA Mentone airport was purchased to have a guaranteed home for the PRA & it's convention. The PRA board spent many a worried hour trying to find a place to hold the annual event after a last minute cancellation.
The PRA also paid rent for our office space for many, many years. For nearly the same "rent" we now own the office. PRA also made a VERY good investment.

Gary Goldsberry and/or Art Evans could have bought the airport for themselves and doubled their money by now.
I offered to take the airport off PRA's hands when the controversy started, the offer still stands.
 
Guys I didn’t ask you to second guess past PRA board decisions. As a board member of three different organizations I am aware of how tough it is to be on the board.
I’m Board to Death.
I support the decision to purchase the Mentone Airport. For any organization to survive it is necessary to make sure that the services you provide do not change. For the PRA to hold the annual fly-in they needed a location that would be consistent and provide the services necessary. They couldn’t have an airport manager keep throwing a monkey wrenches at them. It was a smart move. One that had many angry with them but one in the long run will pay us all big dividends.
So far I have learned that the PRA provides the following support for there chapters
• The PRA is our national voice. Our voice to the EAA, ASC, FAA and others.
The PRA got us into the Light Sport program. The FAA originally said "NO ROTORCRAFT"
• The PRA holds an annual fly-in / convention
• The PRA does everything it can to promote gyroplanes and sport rotorcraft.
• The PRA management is almost exclusively volunteers, people that give their time and money for the love of the sport
• PRA magazines
• A chapter provides a way for other people in Montana who are interested in gyros to find you.

I was hoping they would help us sponsor regional fly-ins.
Perhaps the PRA needs to advertise more aggressively what services they provide for there chapters.
 
What's in it for me?

What's in it for me?

John,

I am not sure if you are looking for a list of things that you will get by joining the PRA to weigh it against the cost, that you will be able to come up with something that seems like a great deal for you. The truth is, you may have to put more into it than you will ever get out of it. I think that is the way it is with most people who make a difference in this world.

However, if you are determined to look at it from a selfish (what's in it for me) standpoint, I would suggest you consider the fact that Gyroplanes are the smallest Aviation Group in existence. They don't have a very good safety record. And there are a lot of people, starting with Administrators in the FAA, that would love nothing more than to see Gyros totally go away. If we do not band together, get along, and work collectively together to promote Gyros, to improve our safety record and increase our numbers, it is not hard to believe that we could be regulated right out of existence.

However, if we do work together, grow our numbers, recruit new enthusiasts, build more chapters and introduce the benefits of Gyro flight to the public, there is every reason to believe we can become an equal member of the Light Sport Aviation Group that is starting to bring Aviation back to the American public. We will be able to continue to pursue our own Aviation goals and pass them on to others when we get past the stage where we can continue carrying the ball ourselves.

If you think Rotary flight is something that should be available to the public, I can't imagine why you would resist joining every organization that you possibly could to further that cause. Granted, it costs a few dollars to belong every year, for which you get a magazine and support, but even if you never got anything for it other than the ability to keep pursuing your Rotary flight goals it would be a very small price to pay. Compared to what it costs to build or fly a Gyro, your PRA costs are nothing. Put it in perspective and you will see that the PRA is a very small investment that you can't afford to not to be involved with.

At least that's how I feel about it. God bless each of us and our efforts to expand and improve the Gyro Flying World.

Gyro Doug
 
Let's be fair and practical, folks - a pilot in Montana won't see much direct benefit in having an airport in Indiana available to him, and it's not a very surprising "choice" not to fly 2000 miles from Oregon to do a few touch and go landings there. (There's also a political reality that has to be dealt with - there was a fair bit of resentment on the west coast when that airport was purchased so far from members on the Pacific side of the country, with many upset that they had no say in the matter, and no doubt some of that resentment still persists, whether one agrees with it or not.)

I'm not arguing that one shouldn't join PRA. I just think Mentone is not an especially great selling point for people west of the Rockies, and that benefits that directly help out pilots in Montana will be more persuasive to somebody thinking about starting a chapter there.


Fair and practical? Would that have been buying an airport in California? The main function of PRA's airport is to serve as a headquarters and a guaranteed site for it's annual fly-in/convention. ROC got booted from the airport it was using last year, Bensen Days had a problem with it's insurance last year and there was a chance it wasn't going to happen. PRA will not have to worry about any of that for it's annual event. I haven't made it to Mentone either but I'm not going to cry about it being so far away. Why do some people have the attitude that if they can't enjoy something or participate in something they don't want anyone else to enjoy it without them.
 
Gary,

I am a National EAA member. I have never been to Oshkosh and now that they have backed out of Sun-n-fun and mostly support war-bird owners they are even less likely to support my gyro hobby.

Yet, I am still a EAA member.

By your logic you should not be an EAA member. They don't poll the membership for $h|T when buying multi-million dollar war birds that are money pits or build new buildings in Oshkosh hundreds of miles away from most of the members.

We got an airport for the price of renting an office for goodness sake.

There is more to the PRA then what you see in the mirror when you get up.

The reason to join is for the good of the hobby, not the magazine, the location of the office or how often they ask you your opinion during board meetings.

If you can't afford a PRA membership I am surprised you can afford to fly. You should renew.

Maybe then you can join the PRA board and buy an airport in CA...

.
.
 
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Fair and practical? Would that have been buying an airport in California? The main function of PRA's airport is to serve as a headquarters and a guaranteed site for it's annual fly-in/convention. ROC got booted from the airport it was using last year, Bensen Days had a problem with it's insurance last year and there was a chance it wasn't going to happen. PRA will not have to worry about any of that for it's annual event. I haven't made it to Mentone either but I'm not going to cry about it being so far away. Why do some people have the attitude that if they can't enjoy something or participate in something they don't want anyone else to enjoy it without them.

I think you missed my point. I'm not complaining about somebody else enjoying a benefit, nor suggesting revisiting the decision to buy an airport. I'm talking about marketing PRA to people in the West. Telling someone that they could choose to use Mentone (as in your prior post), when that airport is thousands of miles away, simply doesn't sell them on PRA. It's not a terribly fair or practical answer to the question, "why should I join?". As a matter of salesmanship, if you want to sell the organization, you have to sell what the potential members might find interesting to buy, or you won't get the sale. There are a number of advantages in PRA membership, as have been mentioned in some of the posts, that apply to westerners. The ability to "choose" to use Mentone just isn't a very persuasive item for inclusion on that list. That's why I originally also said this:

I'm not arguing that one shouldn't join PRA. I just think Mentone is not an especially great selling point for people west of the Rockies, and that benefits that directly help out pilots in Montana will be more persuasive to somebody thinking about starting a chapter there.
 
I have met a lot of very nice people by belonging to the PRA. I have become friends with many of them.

I love the magazine and it appears to me they do a lot for our little corner of aviation.

The dues seem like a small price to pay for something so big.

Thank you< Vance
 
The reason to join is for the good of the hobby, not the magazine, the location of the office or how often they ask you your opinion during board meetings.

That is your opinion regarding the "...good of the hobby, not the magazine". When I tried to talk up PRA to people attending a fly-in, it was the collateral I had to show (older color magazines) that got people interested. I was embarassed to show the thin B&W copies. Having lots of wanna-bees pay for, and druel over a pretty magazine with lots of colored flying pictures helps bring in the bucks to support the relatively few that actually fly and need the voice in the FAA.

I was an EAA member for years dreaming of one-day owning my own machine. The magazine helped keep my interest alive until I could finally make it happen. Just cause I think a magazine is more valuable to all members as opposed to an airport that only a minority can use doesn't mean I'm right. It just means that is my opinion, and why I choose to no longer support the cause through the mother ship. I'll stick to supporting the hobby in my little corner of the U.S. :eek:hwell:
 
Interesting thread!

There isn't much that can be added to why one would/should join the PRA. I could say that local builder/pilot assistance is one benefit but PRA members are a giving group so experience is shared without regard to whether the recipient is a PRA member. But it is hard to believe that some people will take advantage of that generiosity without buying into the only organization dedicated to supplying them with the info needed to build and then train them. The chances are that Norm's conference and this one would never have come into existance if the PRA hadn't kept the gyro visible and available. The principle players here are PRA members and we need to be thankful that Todd carried on for Norm and created the Forums.

One thing we do need to remember is that the gyros being flown today are a result of the PRA carrying on Igor Bensen's dream of flight. The gyro owners/pilots of tomorrow will be carrying on the 45 year old legacy that has been established primarily by the PRA.

A potential PRA member can think of dues as pay back to those that have gone before, because without their efforts, as members of the PRA, they would not have the opportunity to safely build and fly their machines. It can also be thought of as an investment in gyro flying in the future. Rotocraft enthusiasts need the PRA. And the PRA needs more rotorcraft enthusiasts.

Every PRA member needs to recruit and sign up one member in 2008. Gary, I'm ready and willing to resign you! You can even have your old member's number back!
 
One comment about the location of the airport. There has always been some controversy about where the convention is held. It is a case of you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time. The conventions have been held on the East coast, the West coast, the Mid-West and even in Texas! And in every case there were some unhappy PRA members for various reasons.

Kathy Fields, former PRA mag editor, did a demographics on the location of PRA members when the PRA was going thru one of these controversies. She found that the center of the USA PRA population was located almost exactly where Menotone is! It wasn't planned that way and the population center may have shifted since but the fact is that Mentone is pretty much centrally located as far as members are concerned.

Oh yeah, just so I won't have to start another thread; all those West of the Rockies need to be promoting a PRA board member or two. There have only been two that I can remember running for the board and the couple of times I helped count votes my impression was that they didn't get the support they should have received. You Westerners just don't use the ballot box to your advantage!

Before anyone asks how I knew where the votes were coming from I'll tell you it was because of the postal stamp. And I could be wrong because I didn't set there and count; okay, that is one from Georgia and there is one from California or anything like that. But you see enough postal stamps and it becomes apparent where the votes are coming from.
 
It makes sense that if PRA feels the need to own an airport, then centrally located makes sense. It is too bad that the magazine suffered for it.

As I mentioned, the magazine is the one most visible benefits and draw for someone to join the PRA. You can talk and talk about benefits and services PRA provides, but having a glossy magazine in the hand (one a month) full of pictures and personal/current articles gives a feeling of value. So far the arguments for joining sound like PRA is a charity that needs support. $50/yr is more than the AOPA and EAA charge, and both of those provide large, colorful magazines 12 times a year. Yes, I know PRA isn't as big and doesn't have the member base to compete with that.

I'm sure that many members of EAA and AOPA are wanna-bees, but their numbers help build up those organizations. PRA should consider selling/marketing to wanna-bees as a highest priority to get the numbers up. Once numbers are up, maybe an airport and once-a-year fly-in would make more sense.

OK, this was fun, but as Forrest Gump said: "That's all I have to say 'bout that." :eek:
 
After I took my first demo flight at Air Command in 2003, I started a gyro savings account and joined the PRA. I knew there would be other temptations such as other motorcycles, etc as the nest egg got larger. The Rotorcraft magazine helped me keep my focus and I finally got my machine late 2004.

One thing I miss is the annual membership contact list that used to be sent out. There have been several inquiries on the forum lately about starting a chapter in the central Texas area without much response. I remember being surprised at the number of PRA members in the area when I read the list. Just as a side note, President Bush’s next-door neighbor was a PRA member at one time.


Eric VanPraag
Air Command CLT 582
 
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