Greetings from California

Psalms18:10

Hi, I'm Tilden.
Joined
Dec 24, 2010
Messages
30
Location
Westminster, CA
Aircraft
None yet... : (
I joined this forum at great risk of sleeping on the sofa for an extended period of time should my wife discover I'm seriously toying with the idea of buying an autogyro. She's convinced I'll kill myself if I were to fly one. Midlife crisis or not (I'm in my mid 40's) this seems like it would be a blast! Any tips on how to get the wife to buy into the idea are appreciated!

I have no piloting experience other than with remote control airplanes and remote control helicopters. I'm experience with those and handy with tools. I've always wanted to fly the real thing but financially that is not a possibility. Then I stumbled across this forum and eureka; I basically build an oversized remote control toy and strap myself in! :D

I'd like to be able to fly over inhabited areas such as along the coastline. By the very little I have read that is not allowed with an ultralight aircraft unless you have a pilot's license. I'm guessing there may be more restrictions as I've never seen an autogyro flying near the beach. A couple times I've seen the motorized parachutes but I'm not too interested in those.

Well, I have a lot to learn so I'll be browsing the posts here to figure out how best to start flying without spending an arm and a leg.

Alan
 
Hi Alan

first the money---- training cost minimum around 1800 to 2000 to solo. Then if you are a machinist and with a shop or access to one it will run about 7000 and up to build a build a bird, others have done it for less but not many. Now, after the cold shower, you may continue, one good note, your coordination skills on the RC stuff will come in very well on the training. If your thinking ultra light and no training, well some have survived it, others have not. I know, it's a lousy way to start the day after Christmas, but good judgement will get you to next Christmas.



Tony
 
Alan,

Welcome to the forum!

You can fly autogyros over beaches, but you have to check the airspace and keep at least 500 feet away from persons or structures. If the beach is part of a nature sanctuary then you should keep 1000ft or more away. You can not land on public property unless it is an emergency or you have permission from the governing body.

I wrote a book about learning to fly and own an aircraft on a budget. It is not specific to gyros but does have some gyro content.

I would suggest researching the Sport Pilot certificate, signing up for the free PRA EZine, ( www.PRA.org ) and as you are already doing ask question here.

Welcome!

.
 
You sound like me 15 years ago. I only did R/C F/W.

I built a gyroglider to see how it went. It went well.

Get the Bensen gyroglider manual, and see if it fits.
 
Welcome Allen
You need to think outside the box.
This needs to be her idea. kinda sorta.
There are a bunch of guys and GAL's, and chapters in California, you need to go to a flyin or airport where a PRA Chapter is and get a ride (FOR YOUR WIFE). I would suggest an enclosed or semi-enclosed machine for this. If your wife could meet Marion Springer and have a converstion with her, it might help.
Being around an active group, and seeing them fly, might help to lessen her fears.
Let your speach suggest to her, that you are smart enough to get lessons with a Certified Flight Instructor.
Yes...........spend a couple of hours with an instructor, so you can see if this is something you really want to pursue. If you find the bug has bitten you, then you have taken the first step in the right direction to learning how to fly, with an instructor.
And just maybe,........... your wife is on your side.
My wife used to really beat me up, for my expressed desire to fly! She finally has realized after (almost 15 years) of going with me to fly-ins; that I am going to do this, with or with-out her blessing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At the fly-in at Shelbyville, Il. in 2009; I took my gyro with me and flew it several hours at that flyin. During that fly-in she come to realizes how much, I love to fly! and when I suggest going to the airport, she nows tells me to be careful and I'll see ya later.
Oh Yeah. She will sieze the opportunity, to go up in a two place machine, anytime I offer to pay for her a ride.
 
Hello Alan and welcome to the forum.

You wife is not wrong, experimental aircraft are dangerous.

If you can get up to Santa Maria with your wife I will give you each a ride in the Predator, a two place open tandem autogiro with a Lycoming engine.

Any one at the airport she might meet will probably endorse the safety of the aircraft because I fly a lot and follow the rules.

We are just a few miles from Oceano Dunes and Pismo beach so we can patrol the beach on even a short flight.


My wife, Ed loves to fly so if you make it up here on the weekend of evening it might help to hear about safety and flying from a woman.

Even if we can’t get her up in the Predator she can watch some take offs and landings that may help her to manage her fear.

All the best on your gyroplane adventure and good luck with your wife.

Thank you, Vance
 
Alan- Welcome to the forum. I can totally relate to your situation with the wife. The last post was made by Vance. He is an incredible person, and you and your wife really need to experience some time with him and his wife Ed. .... He is a dynamic person...articulate...and will give you a fantastic safe gyro ride. Ed will give you another point of view of having learned from Vance the love of flying in a gyroplane. If you knew them...you would know what I am talking about.

Stan
 
Hi Alan
If you like to have your wife on your site, find her good looking boyfriend and by yourself good insurance policy. I mind good.
But be serous , just give me a call and we cant meet and I give you all the good and bad
I leave next door in Cypress and fly my gyro of El Mirage lake. Not now , lake is under dip water , or call me 562 493-3960
Teddy
 
The couch isn't so bad once you get used to it. I agree with everyone else, you have lots of good people in CA. that fly rotorcraft.
Maybe you could begin to get her to look at it differently, if you tell her, you changed your mind, you want a Motorcycle, and bring home a few 6 packs and a dozen issues of Easy Rider. But dont take advise from me, I'm divorced.
 
Welcome to the forum Alan. You will find lots of good aviation advice here.

I was going to say the "wife portion" is entirely yours to take care of , but the recommendation to get her up for a demo flight just might be the key .

Some knowledge , some training , some financial planning , and it could all work out. If you are lucky maybe she will let you fly the gyro once in a while too :)

I blew dust off the pilot's manual to find Psalms 18:10 says ... "fly on the wings of the wind" ... that's cool !!

Best wishes for all your wife's plans. :)
Arnie.
 
Welcome to the forum Alan. You will find lots of good aviation advice here.

......I blew dust off the pilot's manual to find Psalms 18:10 says ... "fly on the wings of the wind" ... that's cool !!


10. And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind

.
 
You guys are too funny!

I would definitely want to take lessons with an instructor. I've made many mistakes with my RC airplanes and helicopters that I would not want to do in the real thing! It is always a bit tense doing the maiden flight on a new RC airplane or helicopter where in a crash the only thing at risk is some cash, time, and my ego. I'm not so foolish as to think I can translate the RC experience into real flying experience. But over the years it has given me experience in building and seeing how things can fail to have a healthy respect for safety.

Thank you for the invitations to fly and to take my wife up in one!!! It may not be possible to get her to step in one as she gets frightened of everything with altitude. When we fly commercial she has a death grip on my hand as we take off, land, and at any hint of any turbulence. What I (we?) need to work on is getting her to a point where she can tolerate the idea of me flying. It's not like I'm planning to hop on eBay or Craig's list, find an autogyro tomorrow, and be out in the desert bunny hopping next week. This will need to be a well planned psyop over months, maybe even a couple years. She likes taking road trips so perhaps a good way to start off is to simply take some leisurely trips (Pismo Beach and El Mirage both sound nice;)) to observe people flying them and for her to see that most people survive the flights. LOL. It would help for her to see level headed people flying. At this point I think she believes the only people flying them are the same young people you'd see racing a crotch rocket street bike down the road.

I'll keep an eye out for events here in SoCal that we can go to just to observe for now and to chat with people. By many of the photos I've seen of autogyros I didn't get the impression that most pilots were young dare devil types. Will also start setting aside some money to build up a fund for training and buying a machine. Have no idea what type so far but there is plenty of time to figure that out...
 
...You wife is not wrong, experimental aircraft are dangerous...

...Any one at the airport she might meet will probably endorse the safety of the aircraft because I fly a lot and follow the rules...

Alan, I'll diverge from the views of my friend, Vance, to point out that small experimental aircraft are not significantly more dangerous than small certificated aircraft once they complete their test phase after construction.

Boeing has had lots of trouble with its new 787 airliner, including cracking of wing attachment points and an in-flight electrical fire. The difference is that once Boeing (or Cessna, Cirrus, etc.) solves all the problems during testing on the first six aircraft, all the ones delivered to customers will be exact clones of the successful design, bypassing all the initial problems.

In experimental aircraft, however, no two are alike, and every one has to go through those teething pains separately.

Statistically, however, gyroplanes are significantly more dangerous than other general aviation aircraft. If you look at enough accident reports, you figure out why. There are a handful of pitch-unstable machines, most of which aren't sold in the US anymore, and many other accidents in which the obvious cause was inappropriate pilot decision-making.

I concluded that if I could choose a stable machine, and be humble enough to pay attention to the lessons learned the hard way by the less fortunate, I could probably fly at a level of safety comparable to the rest of general aviation. Formal training that doesn't short-change the "Hazardous Attitudes" chapter will be an important factor in safe flight, in my opinion.

Definitely get the ride with Vance. Following the rules is a big safety advantage, and a partially-enclosed, tandem machine like his would be a great first flight for anyone in a gyro. But do it on a mild day, cause it's a little windy in that back seat!
 
Whats the gross weight of a cherub, can you put a rotax on it?
 
Hey Paddy

Cherub used anti-gravity

Tony
 
Whats the gross weight of a cherub, can you put a rotax on it?

LOL. I'm not sure on the Cherub's weight or bolt pattern but Devine intervention will likely be needed to keep me out of trouble with my wife as I stray into the world of autogyros. She is a wonderful woman and only looking out to keep me safe, so I have to be patient with her and try to win her over to this new hobby.

Interesting what PW_Plack had to say on safety. I've been looking for crash videos and seen a few. So far the ones I've seen have been caused by pilot error. Although with many of these being home built I would guess there are going to be accidents from mechanical failures too.

I really have no experience at this time so I hesitate to say too much and sound like a fool. At the risk of sounding dumb, I've read a little about POP and PIO and POP sounded rather unpleasant. I'd rather wait longer to save up to buy or build a kit that is safer than get one cheaper I could get sooner that is not as safe. I read a couple things about a 51% rule and still need to figure out what that is all about. I don't have any problem with assembling from scratch a kit, but I hope I don't have to fabricate 51% or more of a kit. I'd really prefer to have someone or a company which has built a number of these fabricate the machine. Maybe I'm a bit spooked about fabrication because of my experiences with my little RC helicopter. I've had a couple components fail on my little RC helicopter with some dramatic results. Once a main carbon fiber blade came off when I was hovering in my garage and it sounded like a gun went off! It left a nice dent in the drywall too. With the main rotor spinning at 3,000 RPM and the tail rotor at 12,720 RPM any failure tends to result in the chicken dance or some other unpleasant experience. So while I wouldn't mind fabricating a skid for the heli, I wouldn't want to build any of the high stress components, etc. I feel the same about building autogyros parts at this time, but like I said, at this point I know very little about building them, kits, certifications, etc...
 
...with many of these being home built I would guess there are going to be accidents from mechanical failures too...

Remember, many mechanical failures are the result of poor decisions on the part of the person designing, building or maintaining the aircraft.

The "51% Rule" does not require you to do 51% of the fabrication. It requires you to perform 51% or more of the tasks involved in fabrication and assembly. Most gyro kits require very little fabrication, including those kits which are on the FAA's approved list for 51% compliance. You'll do the bulk of the assembly. Meet with a Designated Airworthiness Representative (DAR), the guy who will inspect your completed machine, for details on that process.
 
Remember, many mechanical failures are the result of poor decisions on the part of the person designing, building or maintaining the aircraft.

The "51% Rule" does not require you to do 51% of the fabrication. It requires you to perform 51% or more of the tasks involved in fabrication and assembly. Most gyro kits require very little fabrication, including those kits which are on the FAA's approved list for 51% compliance. You'll do the bulk of the assembly. Meet with a Designated Airworthiness Representative (DAR), the guy who will inspect your completed machine, for details on that process.

That is good to know. Putting things together is fun and gives you a better understanding of how it works, maintenance needs, etc. Time to start looking up kits to start planning how much $ I'll need and to decide on a kit!

Thanks for the welcome here and advice. I'm sure I'll have several more questions over time...
 
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