1,000 flight hours on The Predator!

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Staff member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
18,363
Location
Santa Maria, California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2600+ in rotorcraft
The Predator turned over 1,000 flight hours on the way to Camarillo.

To put that in perspective according to the EAA a typical experimental flies 50 hours per year, my research says that a typical experimental gyroplane flies 25 hours per year so in experimental years that is 20 years of use and in experimental gyroplane years that is 40 years of use.

Mark Givans designed and started building The Predator in 1997 and she first flew in 1999. After six years and 136 flight hours Mark sold her to his friend who put another 50 hours on her before he sold her to me.

She is the only one built of this design.

She is a little over 17 feet long and had 30 foot RAF blades on her. She has a Toyota starter for a pre-rotator and an RFD two bearing rotor head. She is made from .058 mild steel tubing and had a Lycoming O-290G in her that was supposed to make 135 horsepower and a Prince P-Tip propeller. She holds 22 gallons of gas. She was close to centerline thrust when I got her and is closer now. She has no torque roll and no pitch change with power changes. The Predator has an unusually large vertical stabilizer, rudder and horizontal stabilizer with tube and fabric construction. The body is fiberglass.

I put dual controls in her, different seats, a lighter battery and a bicycle brake for a rotor brake. I made a few other minor modifications. I took her to Buckeye where we did a hang test and created a weight and balance chart. She weighed 800 pounds then and still does. In Buckeye one of the main rotor bearings started making metal and I rebuilt the rotor head. The sky tech starter broke.

After 6 hours of dual instruction I was signed off to solo at KSMX, Santa Maria, California even though my CFI, Terry Brandt was based in Buckeye, Arizona.

I had the rigid nose gear collapse in the non movement area of KSMX and have flattened 4 front tires.

I put a second hand transponder and altitude encoder in her.

Terry came to visit me in December so he could raise my wind limits and OK me to fly to two airports.

Six months later I returned to Buckeye and did my night cross country to Gila Bend in her and then took my Private Pilot’s practical test in her and on the second try Jim Mayfield passed me.

I replaced most of the rod ends on the rotor control system and at my first annual modified the little flipper arm on the control system and installed some coned washers on that arm.

I installed 8.5 inch 30 foot Sport Copter blades on her at around 300 hours.

I wacked the rudder with the rotor blade at Oceano when the pre-rotator motor stopped working. I tried to crowd the blades on the somewhat short runway. Eventually the frame of the tube and fabric tail broke. I replaced the Toyota starter pre-rotator.

I blew off a second starter off the engine and went to a slightly different starter from Sky Tec.

I had a landing light burn out and went to larger KC off road lights.

The pre-rotator starter motor died one more time at about 400 hours and has been giving good service ever since.

I have relined the brakes twice and replaced all the tires twice.

I was flying a lot with Ed in the back and after scaring myself at Santa Paula on a windy day I found an IO 320 B1A that is supposed to make 160 horsepower and a 68 inch 3 blade Catto propeller. My friend Smokey did the fabrication on the instillation and we raised the engine a little less than two inches to make clearance for the four inch larger propeller.

She has flown to 12,700 feet and over 120kts indicated air speed in a slight descent.

She climbs out faster and uses less fuel and oil than with the O-290. I used to get a lot of carburetor ice so the fuel injection is nice. My plugs seem to be holding up much better with the different engine.

After about 50 hours on the IO-320 the alternator brackets broke and the alternator hit my propeller. Craig Catto carved a new propeller with a little more pitch. The alternator eventually died and I installed a 65 amp one from Plane Power. That alternator recently broke a wire internally so I am on my second one from Plane Power. It was covered under their warrantee.

The muffler we built our of very thin stainless steel broke several times before Smokey built one out of a little thicker stainless. The new muffler has around 200 hours with no cracks so far.

During her annual condition inspection in 2010 we found five cracks in the frame near the front.

In early 2011 the upper support bracket for the vertical stabilizer ripped out of the frame.

I recently replaced the battery.

I have had remarkable little trouble with her and she seems to attract attention wherever we fly.

My longest cross country was about 800 miles.

I love The Predator and she has given me good service.

I have spent more on Gas than I paid for her including the engine swap.

She needs the fabric replaced on the empennage and some paint touch up on the frame and body.

The upholstery on the both seats has some tears in it from stepping on the seat to get in.

I have flown with a person who claimed to weigh 260 pounds but was probably closer to 300.

I have had only one unplanned landing and that was because of an oil pressure gage that read incorrectly.

Thank you, Vance
 

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Congratulations Vance it is a great milestone you have reached. Absolutely remarkable. :)
 
Vance, the Predator always struck me as a beautiful machine and you have certainly put the miles under her. Why was this design never offered in kit form? It seems to me it would be very successful.

That was a great read...as my brother is working towards finishing my gyro, I'm wondering what kind of story my machine will tell in 5 years.

Thanks Vance!
-John
 
Congratulations. It makes sense to post this on our "history channel", as the 2(3) of you have become a legend already.

Many happy flying hours!

Kai.
 
Thank you!

Thank you!

Thank you Arnie,

I enjoy having you along and it has been a very enlightening experience.

I have found joy that I could not imagine and it continues to escalate.

More than once you have helped me to appreciate my good fortune and be grateful for my friends.

When I say that my friends and I are designing and building a gyroplane it is a bit of an exaggeration, we are really just expanding on what Mark has done with The Predator. It is a great benefit to have a place to start so you can move in a direction rather than just setting out with a blank piece of paper.

I only hope that Mariah Gale will affect people in the same way.

I will feel fortunate indeed if she holds up as well.


Thank you Gabor,

I am proud to advance The Predator’s legacy, she is a remarkable machine.


Hello John,

I think that Mark knows enough aviation history to know that is a difficult path.

The design is not well suited to economical short run manufacture.

Jim Belland and I talk about it often with Mariah Gale and if we were going to offer her as a kit we would need to make the frame easier to build. It is hard to imagine there is a market for such an aircraft as it seems to be the antithesis of the gyroplanes on the market. She is big and heavy and expensive. She is focused on cross country where most gyroplanes focus on light and maneuverable and sporting around near the home base airport and traveling on a trailer.

Jim and I have both had experience with low volume short run manufacture. We both believe in margins that are generally not available in the aviation market.

Some of the European gyroplanes have a similar focus but so far the ones I have flown are lighter and less maneuverable. This seems an odd combination that speaks to the quality of Mark Givan’s design and the reason we have made the empennage such a focus with Mariah Gale.

I am glad you liked the post; there is so much to tell it was hard to pare it down.

I felt telling her story had value because it is wonderful to see the possibilities at the beginning of such an adventure and also recognize the limitations.


Thank you Kai,

I struggled with where to post her story.

I feel that dreams are what drive the gyroplane community. The Predator is the embodiment of many of those dreams. She shows what is possible with enough passion and drive.

The Predator is one of the early attempts at gaining the benefit of center line thrust, a tall tail and a generous horizontal stabilizer.

In our little community the three of us are well known. It amazes me just how recognized The Predator is in the much larger aviation community as I wander around California. The aviation enthusiasts may make fun of her but I feel she speaks to something deep inside most of them.

Thank you, Vance
 
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a beautiful elegant machine

a beautiful elegant machine

Looks like a beautiful elegant machine (now you don't usually hear THAT said about a gyrocopter) in this video (search N142MG on Youtube, or paste link below in a browser) ... I'm sure that the videographer's chuckled comment " ...he could have landed that ..." was finished mentally "...on a dime!". And Vance is sitting up tall there, completely in control.

N142MG - YouTube

Funny thing is, even though The Predator does not typify what most think a gyro is and can do, I feel it may evoke a greater mood of "gyro legitimacy" in fixed wing pilots, and airport personnel, as it is somewhere in between, being somewhat substantial and graceful... and no doubt Vance's calm "captaincy" adds to that.
 
I admire Vance for his perseverance in achieving his goal of attaining his Gyro rating. His attention to detail in the Gyro's he builds shows what a true craftsman he is.

I always enjoy listing to Vance. I did miss him at Mentone. Hopefully the next time we're at a gathering together Vance will save a little talk time for me.
 
Congrat's Vance on the 1000 Hrs!!!! :first: :yo: :whoo:

Thanks for all the compliments!!

You are correct about why I never offered it as a kit. At the time if it cost over 20K you would have a very hard time selling it. Also the fact that it was built for an aircraft engine added even more to the expense. Now I see that there are quite a few gyros out there that are in the 70K - 100K price range, but most of those are fully enclosed and I don't have any idea on how well they are selling. I built that gyro with a few things in mind, first and formost Stability!! Second was cross country capability. I never built a trailer for it and figured if I couldn't fly it there it wasn't going. Last was comfort.

My friend Bob is is going to try to make it down to the Thunder in the Valley. He is the one that you met with me at the Golden West Fly-In.

Be safe my friend when flying at the show!! Remember that most will be very impressed just to see it fly by slowly!!!
 
A mile stone.

A mile stone.

Wow Brian,

Epic is a great word well used!

I love to watch you beginning the journey I have been on. I feel you are approaching gyroplane flying in a very thoughtful way with lots of passion but you don’t let it over power your reason.


Thank you Ron, in the time I have been flying the Predator she has used about 5,868 gallons of 100LL so far and 229 quarts of Aero Shell.


Thank you Michael,

I feel my efforts pale in comparison to yours.

Your aircraft is a show piece. Even Mariah Gale will not be on your level.


Thank you for the kind words Mark. The video was taken with the O-290 and in my first year as pilot in command.

She climbs out a lot faster with the IO-320 and I feel I have a little better landing technique now.

I agree with your bridge assessment with the fixed wingers. They recognize the engine and they can relate to the panel. They can understand why she is up so high and why she has such a big butt.

I try to enhance the interaction by being very careful about my radio work and pattern work.

At SMX many come to me for the weather because they won’t call Lockheed Martin and they know I did. I also always have a current FAR/AIM at the hanger for those questions that come up. I usually have the tool they are looking for.

Thank you Chuck, You were one of the first gyro friends I made and I always enjoy spending time with you. I am sorry we didn’t find time at Mentone this year; I will make more of an effort next year.

Thank you Mark, I appreciate your genius every time I fly her.

The lack of required maintenance is remarkable.

She has never stranded me anywhere.

Did you ever imagine that she would see 1,000 hours and be recognized worldwide?

She has a magic that captures peoples imagination.

I can only hope a little of that magic will rub off on Mariah Gale.

I just got the picture of us at Marysville as an email attachment today. Good timing.

I am proud to be considered a friend.


Thank you Tim, I always enjoy being around you and look forward to seeing you at Bensen Days 2012.

Thank you all for the congratulations, It was not a goal but I feel it is a milestone.

Thank you, Vance
 
Vance, thank you for taking the time to tell us about your 1000 hours in the Predator; a lifetime of flying for many of us and done in such a relatively short period of time. It wasn't all cake though. Things happened, like the alternator incident, that get your attention and make life exciting. For sure, your flying career has been full and promises to be richer still, for you and all of us that follow it.

Happy landings,

Jerry
 
Congratulations on the big birds 1000hrs Vance, I should think you have that as well altogether so congratlations to you too.

I have not the slightest doubt that they have been extremely happy ones, and I wish you many more.
 
Escalating euphoria!

Escalating euphoria!

My pleasure Jerry.

It adds to my joy to share the fun and adventure with my friends here on the forum.


Thank you Leigh, I have around 900 hours in rotorcraft.

Thank you Paul, Friends like you help me to have the self confidence to continue to expand.

I learn something every time I fly her. Sometimes it is subtle and sometimes it comes as an epiphany.

Flying in the air show is one nice way to measure. The first time I had only had my license for a few months and I was trying hard to not do anything stupid. The second time two years later I was much more aggressive and more advanced in my maneuvers. I scared myself a few times and nearly made a mistake. This last time, a year later; I felt relaxed and much smoother in my transition from one maneuver to the next. I felt like I was just out flying around and there were no surprises. I did not have to wonder; “What do I do now and how do I do it?” I asked that question more than once in the first two shows. I am starting to feel one with the machine and she is becoming an extension of my imagination. I couldn’t tell you when or what caused this difference. It is evident even to the people watching. I suspect I learn a little slower than most people so it may be the hours are more important.

The thing I am the most pleased with is my joy continues to grow with each flight hour. I was concerned once I had learned to land and manage rudimentary navigation and radio skills I would become board. It has been just the opposite. It seems there is always more to learn and more to refine. The joy of flying becomes more profound with each lesson learned and every minute in the air.

Even the time on the ground trying to understand what is happening in the air is time well spent.

Thank you, Vance
 
Nice machine Vance. I saw it once at Mentone a few years ago. I'm glad you put a 0320 on it.
 
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